For sub 100hz performance, the F212 is going to have more performance. That is by design on both cabs. Different strokes and all.
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Berg CN212 - Negatives?
- Thread starter bigboy_78
- Start date
And thats what I need, the GK NEOs have very tight voicing with a ton of roll off unde 100hz. My next cab is going to be a changeup from that just like we have different basses for a changeup
I feel like I may be missing something here. The CN212 has plenty going on below 100hz. I don't have it plotted out, but Jim shows the CN212 to cover 40hz-15KhZ, 104db @ 2.83v/1 meter. My personal playing experience says that the CN212 delivers lots of lowend material, to the extent that I need to watch any EQing I do in the 30-160hz range.
I looked for info for the F212 and could not readily find any specs. They may be on the GB site somewhere, but they are not obvious. Knowing just a little about the GB universe, I'm certain someone has done a spec plot.
I looked for info for the F212 and could not readily find any specs. They may be on the GB site somewhere, but they are not obvious. Knowing just a little about the GB universe, I'm certain someone has done a spec plot.
Here it is from the KJung Berg Bandwagon leader
CN 'Carbon Neo'. This is Jim's current neo line, and consists of a 112 and 212. Quite different in voicing from the discontinued AE line. They are punchy, mid present, nice round low end, and the same tweeter as the HD line, resulting in a smooth, organic, well integrated, non sizzly tweeter. Amazing cabs.... punchy like the HD 10's, but bigger down low, and WAY lighter. The 'carbon' part of the name comes from the 'carbon patterned tolex', and is meant to communicate 'lightweight, cutting edge.
AE 'Advanced Engineering' Jim's first neo line. Consisted of a 410, a 210, a 112 and a 212. The 410 and the original 'horizontal' AE210 were very 'tight and bright', as was the original AE112... grindy, punchy. The revised AE112b and the revised vertical AE210 had significantly revoiced crossovers that made them much smoother and more relaxed (I feel the AE210v is one of the best sounding cabs Jim has ever produced). The AE212 was VERY big down low (i.e., low end extended), relaxed in the mids, and relatively hi fi up top, so in a way, a bit like the older HT cabs.
Using those descriptions, for my tonal goals I'd like the AE (VERY big down low). CN (punchy mid present) describes my GK NEO cabs... so is that a CN212 negative? No, its just being real about what the design Jim was looking for in the CN line & thats not anywhere near the F212 design goal of more low end.
CN 'Carbon Neo'. This is Jim's current neo line, and consists of a 112 and 212. Quite different in voicing from the discontinued AE line. They are punchy, mid present, nice round low end, and the same tweeter as the HD line, resulting in a smooth, organic, well integrated, non sizzly tweeter. Amazing cabs.... punchy like the HD 10's, but bigger down low, and WAY lighter. The 'carbon' part of the name comes from the 'carbon patterned tolex', and is meant to communicate 'lightweight, cutting edge.
AE 'Advanced Engineering' Jim's first neo line. Consisted of a 410, a 210, a 112 and a 212. The 410 and the original 'horizontal' AE210 were very 'tight and bright', as was the original AE112... grindy, punchy. The revised AE112b and the revised vertical AE210 had significantly revoiced crossovers that made them much smoother and more relaxed (I feel the AE210v is one of the best sounding cabs Jim has ever produced). The AE212 was VERY big down low (i.e., low end extended), relaxed in the mids, and relatively hi fi up top, so in a way, a bit like the older HT cabs.
Using those descriptions, for my tonal goals I'd like the AE (VERY big down low). CN (punchy mid present) describes my GK NEO cabs... so is that a CN212 negative? No, its just being real about what the design Jim was looking for in the CN line & thats not anywhere near the F212 design goal of more low end.
To some extent, each player needs to try each cab before coming to conclusions. At one point, Ken had both AE212 and the CN212 and posted a very illustrative video comparing what was going on with them (also his AE210). He ended up taking that video down, which was a shame, because it was done really well.
I chose to stay with my AE212; but, I also need to use an HPF to tame the low end. For MY purposes (covers), I need to lop off the low end around 90 Hz +/- 10 Hz depending on the room. Other players with different gigs and needs will certainly have different preferences. From Ken's video, I would expect the CN to automatically take care of what I am doing with my HPF. Which is really cool, if that is your objective. And since many of us play covers, that would be very common. I can also see other players doing other kinds of gigs who would prefer something a bit different. YMMV.
The discussion is for another thread (in fact there is another thread which you have posted in, and been addressed in for these question). Covering a certain frequency range is pretty open ended. As you say what would be enough for some, is not for others, so you need something more objective. Also, I dont find sensitivity specs at 2 watts to be useful to the average consumer who may not understand that is what is going on with these cabs.
My GK NEOs do an excellent job of lopping off low end. My Shuttlemax 9.2 also has a built in HPF of sorts that I could shut off to get low end when I want it. So... a cab that lops off my low end like the CN is too similar to my GK NEOs.
Appreciate the response bro, you definitely helped push me more towards the AE212 or F212!
"Lops off" may have been a bit more dramatic than I intended. I gigged the Schroeder cabs for several years. Those REALLY "lop off" low end. The Berg CN's are no where in the same zone at all.
I also gig with a Shuttle and ShuttleMAX. In fact, the built in HPF in those is what initially confused me about the AE212. I simply wasn't getting any low end runaway that other cats were describing. Great match. The CN pretty much produces a similarly pleasing result, but with full range amps. I suspect the CN would sound smoother and deeper than the GK's, which I understand are also very good.
It gets pretty subtle, which is why it is best to try for yourself.
