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Berg CN212 - Negatives?

#86
leroy diamond said:
And is that with full PA support?.
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yup. one of my bands likes loud stage sound- and when we play the few larger outdoor gigs every year I bring my 410 instead of the 212 stack as, like I said, the 12's start to stress pretty hard at that stage volume. If you always have killer monitors that translates your bass for all of your bandmates at every gig you're a luckier man than I am. Most Pas we tend to see have all the money put into the mains and have crap monitors. I monitor my bass through my rig. The HD410 kicks harder and holds together better than the 2 HD112s stacked IME
 
#87
slade said:
yup. one of my bands likes loud stage sound- and when we play the few larger outdoor gigs every year I bring my 410 instead of the 212 stack as, like I said, the 12's start to stress pretty hard at that stage volume. If you always have killer monitors that translates your bass for all of your bandmates at every gig you're a luckier man than I am. Most Pas we tend to see have all the money put into the mains and have crap monitors. I monitor my bass through my rig. The HD410 kicks harder and holds together better than the 2 HD112s stacked IME
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My Saturday night residency is without P.A. support in a medium sized venue playing classic rock and our stage volume is bloody loud, but the CN212 holds up fine. All the guys in the band use custom earplugs, in order to cope with volume issues and protect what is left of our hearing. On the occasions we have full PA support, we do what we can to control stage volume and let the PA and monitors do the work. The monitors are pretty adequate in this regard and are preferential to loud stage volume for us guys.

I have A/B'd the CN212 with The Genz Benz NX2-212T and Markbass 4x10 and The CN212 won out in terms of slam. I have never played through a louder cab than the CN212. I can well imagine the HD410 is killer but at 88lbs it is no interest to me and my dodgy back, so I am sticking with NEO's and Class D. Regarding class D amps, I am currently using the Kustom KXB500 and it is the best class D amp I have used and matches the CN212 really well ( My TH500 and Puma 900 are now relegated to back up).
 
#88
I with you on the dodgy back. Also with you that in medium sized venues 212s can get the job done. I play about ten gigs a year that they can't- one is on the beach for about 500 people- loud gig and the 12s are not up to the task. I was trying to replace the 410 with the 12s to save my back but I still need to drag it around.
 
#89
leroy diamond said:
Why anyone would require two CN212 is beyond me.
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I know; right?

Unfortunately, Slade is correct. There are just some gigs where the single 212 won't get it done. I recently did a stint in one of the top modern country bands in PHX. Major league FOH at all the gigs AND band leader wanted me to have the equivalent of the SVT 810. I'm with you that generally moving all that much air around on stage isn't necessary. But, it just depends on the gig. A single 212 does not equal the 810. Unfortunately.
 
#90
bucephylus said:
I know; right?

Unfortunately, Slade is correct. There are just some gigs where the single 212 won't get it done. I recently did a stint in one of the top modern country bands in PHX. Major league FOH at all the gigs AND band leader wanted me to have the equivalent of the SVT 810. I'm with you that generally moving all that much air around on stage isn't necessary. But, it just depends on the gig. A single 212 does not equal the 810. Unfortunately.
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The SVT810 is a real balls to the wall cab and in terms of slam it would absolutely slaughter the CN212 no doubt, and totally agree that for the most part moving around that much air on stage is overkill. I attended a gig a couple of months back and parked myself near the bass player who happened to be using an SVT810. The band had full PA support. Once that fridge kicked off it had me running for cover.
 
#92
JOE EDO said:
I ditched mine for a NVT610. I was just never was a fan of 12" speakers for bass, but I tried it. Bottom line is I like 10"s....and I know many will say speaker diameter doesn't matter, it's cab design. Maybe, but my ears/ brain feel at home with a few 10"s pumping out fast, punchy bass. (I also own 2 HS210's.)
I'm very interested in the new CN210!! 2 of those cabs stacked just might be bliss as far as weight/tone for me.
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Joe, I'm guessing what your hearing between the CN vs NVT is more about the ported CN vs the sealed NV. Sealed cabs generally just punch harder and often sound "tighter" than ported cabs IMO/IME. I regularly gig both a CN212 and an NV610 (not the T=tweeter version) with a variety of amps. The difference is very tangible, but I mostly associate that difference with the sound of a sealed vs ported design, not 10's vs 12's. Of course, there is also the matter of the 6 10's vs the 2 12's - quite a bit more driver area pushing out the tones on the 6x10.

both great cabs, different answers to different needs.
 
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#93
I'm a bit late here and much of the good/bad stuff has been already mentioned. I do have a few things to add. FWIW, I regularly gig a CN212 (2 years) and an NV610 (1 year) in a variety of music styles.

CN212 just sounds great with every amp I have used it with, tube/hybrid or SS/class D type. Great weight/format for a single trip load-in/out.

When pushed to its upper power handling limits (e.g. using a 1100w Ampeg SVT 6Pro), the mids do get a bit harsh/barky ... beyond growl. But IMO that's really an issue of too much power into the cab (user control issue :D).

The carbon fiber looking tolex on the CN does kind of take more of a beating than some of Jim's other coverings. And in my case, I am talking about the bottom of the cab, where a cover will not help protect it. Nothing terrible, but it does seem a bit less robust. and in any event, these things are tools that we use, not museum pieces, so they will get dinged and banged up - its part of the mojo build-up process. :cool:

For a full tube amp (mine is a 200w Fender Studio Bass amp) the CN sounds good, but the NV610 kills with that head, super deep and punchy. My guess is that it is more of a sealed vs ported thing and the damping factor that you get with a sealed cab. Tube amps seem to like that more than ported cabs IMO/IME.

CN tweeter control is great. Just a bit of turning down or up has a very meaningful impact on the sound of the cab - from a bit more old school/tight warm, to a bit more modern snap. And always very musical sounding, never harsh.

I have been gear rolling pretty hard in the past 10 years, bringing my older gear into the new century, and I since a grabbed both the CN and NV cabs, I simply do not have cab gas any more. great stuff.
 
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#94
OP here……

I put this thread up hoping to drag some haters out of the woodwork, thinking that the Berg dedicated threads might just be fan sites, but the negatives really do seem fairly thin on the ground.

The main issues:
· @ 4 ohms, can’t double up on cabs with most amps – this isn’t really a fault, just the wrong tool if you need acres of volume.
· Covering is damage prone – this is a problem. When paying top dollars for a cab you hope that it will stay fairly pristine, every scratch and dent takes $$ off your investment if you ever want to sell it. If a cover is essential, Jim should include them in the sale price.
· The mids get harsh when the cab is really pushed, and by all accounts at this point you’re getting in to “crazy loud” territory and probably need more cab.
· Apparently as good as the CN212 is – allegedly perfect – if you overlook the extra 25lbs or so the HD212 could be even better.
As always TB hasn’t helped my gas…….now I’m walking around looking for things to pick up that might be 80lbs so I can get an idea of the HD212’s weight.
 
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#95
Well this attempt at talking myself out of it failed, so a new CN212 should be arriving soon.

More money than I’ve spent on gear in my life, but hopefully it’ll be a “buy once, cry once” situation and I can go back to mastering my instrument instead of fantasizing about super-cabs.

Do you think the shortcomings of my $50 SX will be more apparent through my $1500 cabinet? Maybe I need a new bass………:cool:
 
#96
bigboy_78 said:
Well this attempt at talking myself out of it failed, so a new CN212 should be arriving soon.

More money than I’ve spent on gear in my life, but hopefully it’ll be a “buy once, cry once” situation and I can go back to mastering my instrument instead of fantasizing about super-cabs.

Do you think the shortcomings of my $50 SX will be more apparent through my $1500 cabinet? Maybe I need a new bass………:cool:
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Look forward to your objective review boss... I'm personally leaning to a F212 as I'm looking for more warm low end content and relaxed mids vs my GK neos which are more mid forward & have little low end content. Id actually like to see a AE212 pop up in my area.

Tonal goals baby, a lot of products arent better or worse, its more what hits your tonal fancy
 
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#100
CL400Peavey said:
Different goals of design. You would have to ask objective questions to get meaningful comparison. ;)
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I've done some pretty good research on the matter... the lower tuning is what I need. From what Ive hear the CN212 described vs the AE212 its more of a tighter rock voicing which I have covered with my GK NEO 412 & 115s. I need bigger down low. AE212 vs F212 would be an interesting comparison for my tonal goals.
 

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