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Berg CN212 - Negatives?
- Thread starter bigboy_78
- Start date
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Okay I'll sling some mud since this isn't a Berg Fan boi thread ( and I was 3 beers under when I wrote this) . I've used the AE212, AE112, CN212 and tried the HD212. The ceramics in the HD212 just own the low end in a way that the 12" Neos in the CN212 don't. From what I can tell, the CN212 sounds like it has a PA type driver in it. The lows are really tight and have fatness in the low low mids. But there really isn't much true low end extension with that cab. Other's will disagree and they are all very experienced cats with their own ears so I'll pick no arguments with them. I wanted more lows than that cab could deliver so I sold it. Make what you want from that. I ran the CN212 with a GK MB Fusion for awhile and changed horses. I used to be all about the GK stuff now I'm off it. I sold all my Bergs. The old HT Series cabs had lows that kicked the barn down. We all seem to want/hear different things. My conclusion, the CN212 is too pricey for what it does and what it is. Now I'm all about the Kappalite LF series loaded cabs that just slay Bergantino CN Neos for breakfast. Flame on. edit: The HD212 is a bad mofo in a small package.
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Indeed - at the last gig I played with MB800/CN212, there was another bass player there (he replaced me in my immediate previous band) and he couldn't believe how that cab was handling the B string when I went down to some Cs and Ds. What the CN212 doesn't have that the HD212 has is a low mid presence that makes the bottom end a little thicker (not quite muddier) to my ear. That's fine with me - I like a clean bottom end, and the CN212 delivers that without sacrificing volume down there.
I also used it at an open mic and got to hear six or seven other players through it, and all but one was plenty loud and had plenty of bottom end. The one had no clue on how to EQ his bass.
Disclaimer: fanboi
I just had another thought, Doug. The amp also plays a role in how a rig sounds. You ran a very clean amp through it (MB Fusion). It takes on a different character that may be more to your liking with an amp like a Prodigy or even a TH500. Or maybe a Blue Soul.
I've not tried the famed CN cabs at all, but I DID have an AE212 and, until only recently, 2 x AE112'S. I found the Fender Bassman Neo 115 cab THAT good, I sold my 2 AE112'S. And I LOVE me Bergs.
No mud there. You just found a cab that sounded better to you. That's cool.
I never know what people mean when they say "low end". I prefer the low mids that the CN212 produces. Tight, full and punchy. There might not be as much of that very low, pillowy bass, that I associated with my Epifani gear, but that's what I prefer.
My CN212 seems to be easier to EQ and it is always in control of the sound. I never have to deal with the "boom" on stage or lack of definition that I seemed to get a lot with previous rigs.
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That's a great point. While I worry about damage, I've not had anything significant. Some folks may have other experiences based in the emotion in their replies.
I sprung for the covers so I've not had any damage other than light scuffs. I'm pretty careful and I'm the only one who loads my gear.
One of mine arrive damaged (corner dented in/ thanks UPS) but was immediately replaced by JB. Awesome customer service, and this was a late Friday night delivery with the replacement arriving early the next week.
There are 2 points brought up that can be construed as negative. Being that there isn't an 8ohm CN212 and the tolex. But putting it in context. It is a light weight speaker designed to be a single cab solution so having 2 kind of defeats the purpose. I didn't notice the tolex until it was brought up. At least it isn't rat fur.
For my tone goals and needs the CN212 is perfect. I've used it in a metal cover band with 2 guitars at a bar without pa support and it worked like a charm. The one trip dream has been realized with this cab. I couldn't be happier with my CN212. Ymmv...
For my tone goals and needs the CN212 is perfect. I've used it in a metal cover band with 2 guitars at a bar without pa support and it worked like a charm. The one trip dream has been realized with this cab. I couldn't be happier with my CN212. Ymmv...
Everybody keeps mentioning the tolex being an issue. I've never had an issue with it in two years of heavy gigging and using the cover.
There is one dent from my car trunk slamming into it. No break in the tolex...
There is one dent from my guitar player walking into the side of a truck with it. No break in the tolex...
I think there might be a small tear on the bottom from my hand truck or the sidewalk, but that's almost expected.
It's certainly better than the AE series stuff
There is one dent from my car trunk slamming into it. No break in the tolex...
There is one dent from my guitar player walking into the side of a truck with it. No break in the tolex...
I think there might be a small tear on the bottom from my hand truck or the sidewalk, but that's almost expected.
It's certainly better than the AE series stuff
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I dont have any yet but I have only had it a few weeks. It will go through the reall test this weekend. I have a monthly gig that we play in a cellar/dungeon and the bottom of my Aguilar GS112's was too much. Looking for the low mids of this cab to tame that room. But it is a pant leg flapper and the tone just keeps gettting better. It is much easier to move this cab than 2 GS112's.
After A/Bing them with the HD line I bought the HDs. Mids are brittle to me when pushed hard. That's just my ears though. I think they are badass cabs though, just preferred the HDs
I agree with this. I owned a CN212 for a while, and later bought a Jule Amps Monique 700 to pair with it. The cab did not like being pushed hard by the Monique. It would become very brittle, and lose its warm, clear tone. So I switched to an HD212, and it was a different story. The HD has a ton of rich warmness and heft to its sound, and never loses its composure, even when pushed hard by my Monique.
I think that the CN212's are fantastic cabs and can't think of any negatives. I will say however that personally I like the sound of the AE-410 better.
Well the guys at the berg booth agree with you as well- they told me they all haul around the ceramic loaded cabs. I asked them if they thought I was crazy for going with the heavier 2 cab option and spending more money when I went in to buy the cns. Not crazy. It was reassuring as when I posted here about the neo vs ceramic topic I took a LOT of grief. Having them agree made me chuckle just a little.
I've experienced the same results. I'm still not sold on neos in general.
Someone in another thread asked why Bag End had not switched to neos and someone responded that they tested them and did not like how they sounded. Goes to show their commitment to audio quality.
As far as negatives...
The weight - even if it were 10 - 15lbs heavier than advertized, it would still be very light cab with a great form factor. Easy move (one hand over short distance for me). Great volume to size/weight ratio - probably the best I've ever had.
The Tolex- Get a cover for it. If you are spending $1,000+ on a cab, spend the extra $100 and get a cover, or ask your dealer to throw it in for free. That's what I did, and my looks great after years of gigs and road trips. As far as the finish, I do have a few dents in mine. That lightweight wood is also soft. But no big deal for me personally.
Harsh mids - I can see it. When it is really pushed hard, the mids can get a little harsh, and it has that mid voice baked in that is hard to dial out. What this normally means is that you cut thru the mix very well, and hear yourself on stage. Your sound is articulate, and never gets muddled. Only time this was ever really an issue for me is when I tried to raise my cab off the ground. It was more at ear level, and it was shooting all those mids right in my ear hole. Also lost the stage coupling doing this. Solution... I put it back on the stage, and it sounded great.
Lack of low end - different strokes, ya know. I think the low end is perfect. Nice and tight. No boom, no mud. Sits in there perfect with a kick drum.
I have a few thoughts on this. Any big gig you do (big club, outdoor, festival, etc) is going to (should) have a PA to do heavy lifting, in which case, the Berg is perfect for on stage. If there is no PA, hopefully you and your band are all playing similar gear. For example, In my 5 piece band, guitar players are using 30-50 watt 2x10 amps (or something like that), so my 500 watt 2x12 is perfect. We all have similar stage rigs, so no matter what the situation, PA or no PA, inside or outside, we sound like a unit. We also work hard to play to the venue, and not get into volume wars.
Now, if my guitar players were both using 100 watt marshals with 4x12 cabs, and I had the berg, and I was getting drown out at gigs, that would be more on me not picking the right tool for the job, and not on the Berg for not delivering the goods. That's just a laws of physics thing. Loud is a relative term, so you have to pick the right tool for YOUR job.
Berg CN212 is not going to be for everyone, but it's a fine cab, and for me, the best one-cab solution I've ever come across.
The weight - even if it were 10 - 15lbs heavier than advertized, it would still be very light cab with a great form factor. Easy move (one hand over short distance for me). Great volume to size/weight ratio - probably the best I've ever had.
The Tolex- Get a cover for it. If you are spending $1,000+ on a cab, spend the extra $100 and get a cover, or ask your dealer to throw it in for free. That's what I did, and my looks great after years of gigs and road trips. As far as the finish, I do have a few dents in mine. That lightweight wood is also soft. But no big deal for me personally.
Harsh mids - I can see it. When it is really pushed hard, the mids can get a little harsh, and it has that mid voice baked in that is hard to dial out. What this normally means is that you cut thru the mix very well, and hear yourself on stage. Your sound is articulate, and never gets muddled. Only time this was ever really an issue for me is when I tried to raise my cab off the ground. It was more at ear level, and it was shooting all those mids right in my ear hole. Also lost the stage coupling doing this. Solution... I put it back on the stage, and it sounded great.
Lack of low end - different strokes, ya know. I think the low end is perfect. Nice and tight. No boom, no mud. Sits in there perfect with a kick drum.
I have a few thoughts on this. Any big gig you do (big club, outdoor, festival, etc) is going to (should) have a PA to do heavy lifting, in which case, the Berg is perfect for on stage. If there is no PA, hopefully you and your band are all playing similar gear. For example, In my 5 piece band, guitar players are using 30-50 watt 2x10 amps (or something like that), so my 500 watt 2x12 is perfect. We all have similar stage rigs, so no matter what the situation, PA or no PA, inside or outside, we sound like a unit. We also work hard to play to the venue, and not get into volume wars.
Now, if my guitar players were both using 100 watt marshals with 4x12 cabs, and I had the berg, and I was getting drown out at gigs, that would be more on me not picking the right tool for the job, and not on the Berg for not delivering the goods. That's just a laws of physics thing. Loud is a relative term, so you have to pick the right tool for YOUR job.
Berg CN212 is not going to be for everyone, but it's a fine cab, and for me, the best one-cab solution I've ever come across.
Totally different cabs. I had the AE212 for a minuet, so I do have direct experience with both.
The AE212 has an extended low end, scooped thru the mids, and goes higher.
The CN212 has a tight low end with more of the focus in the low mids, very even across the mids, and a relaxed high end.
CN is more punch and articulation,, AE is more pillow and sizzle. In the most simple terms, of course, and IMO, and IME.
Very well said all around! I really wouldn't expect all that and a bag of rice out of a 2x12 myself, but it seems the small to medium cab reports get more and more outlandish as the price goes up. I'm really hunting down a "one bigger cab solution" and I've learned quite a bit poking around LDS and some of the Berg threads. CN might not be for me, HD might. Really looking for that deep extension, having been a sealed kinda guy for so long. Loving the comparisons between the different Berg lines as well.
Funny... when I first got the CN212, I kind of thought it has a sealed cab kind of vibe going on. The low end is tight and punchy, lots of meat in the low mids, fast response, nice low end roll off... I could be describing a sealed cab easy.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Munji I hear you man. You and I both know Bergantino is a solid engineer, he knows how to get a very solid 60 hz out of a bass cab which is why guys with 5 strings with low B's say the lows are slamming. (it's not the fundamental) And it's why (before I went with the Kappalite loaded LF series loaded cabs) I played Bergantino and nothing but Bergantino. I knew I could also get my money back out of it to when I was done. To my ear that CN212 is a great compromise because you get decent SPL/weight ratio. That cab with a P Bass will sound great. But if you are looking for scoop or sizzle the AE is a better call. edit: I should also mention that had Jim made a Triad type version of that NV115 (ported, 3-way design) I would have been all over it. The NV115 is my favorite Berg cabinet.
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