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Berg HS210 - what heads are people using ?

P

Pietro

Apr 24, 2008
5
0
#1
Hi
I recently purchased 2 x HS210 cabs and have been gigging using my SD800 but I'm not happy with the tone. There is something about the Markbass that just doesn't work for me, I've tried it with MB cabs for several months but it does not float my tonal boat, but that's another story. In the past I've used an Eden Navigator and Stewart 2.1 , through different cabs, and I like the Eden mids , much sweeter to my ear, however that rig has sadly died hence the need for a new head . I have been considering a TFB750-A and wondered if anyone has tried one with the HS210's ? I currently play a Sadowsky M5-24 . The band plays a variety of covers from Rage to Jamiroquai to Van Morrison, and everything in between. Very Loudly.
So I need power, tonally I like solid,tight lows, sweet prominent mids and subtle tops that won't slice my head off. I like an amp to be fairly versatile too, easily tweakable for bad sounding rooms etc
Thanks in advance for any suggestions/comments.

Peter
 
#2
i'm pretty sure Senor Squid uses the TFB / HS210 setup. try PM'ing him.

as for myself, anythign all tube ROCKS w/ the HS210, like my sadowsky sa200.

sadworking.jpg
 
#4
thanks guys,
a lot of people on this forum have said the TF is very tube like for a SS , and as I want to keep the weight down the TF might be the way to go .
Love to hear from others using these cabs.
cheers
peter
 
#5
Pietro said:
Hi
I recently purchased 2 x HS210 cabs and have been gigging using my SD800 but I'm not happy with the tone. There is something about the Markbass that just doesn't work for me, I've tried it with MB cabs for several months but it does not float my tonal boat, but that's another story. In the past I've used an Eden Navigator and Stewart 2.1 , through different cabs, and I like the Eden mids , much sweeter to my ear, however that rig has sadly died hence the need for a new head . I have been considering a TFB750-A and wondered if anyone has tried one with the HS210's ? I currently play a Sadowsky M5-24 . The band plays a variety of covers from Rage to Jamiroquai to Van Morrison, and everything in between. Very Loudly.
So I need power, tonally I like solid,tight lows, sweet prominent mids and subtle tops that won't slice my head off. I like an amp to be fairly versatile too, easily tweakable for bad sounding rooms etc
Thanks in advance for any suggestions/comments.

Peter
Click to expand...

Hi,

I've got an Eden WT800 and have auditioned a stack of HS210cabs and I agree the Eden mids are warm and sweet though can sound a little Low Mid heavy especailly through Eden cabs. However, the Eden head thru the Bergs seemed very warm and more balanced. I'm not surprised that the MB SD800 is not cutting it. Out of the MB heads this one seems to be the most fussiest when it comes to speaker cabs.

If you think the Eden mids are sweet then I would stick to an Eden amp. A WT800C which is 1100watts bridged into 4 ohms. Perfect for that speaker set up. It is warmer than the Tfunk and a little fuller in the lower end and sweeter in the highs as well. A really good match for the Bergs IMO.
 
#7
Guys
thanks for the replys, actually thought more people would have chimed in on this, I guess these cabs aren't in as much use as the AE 's.
I find the HS210's smooth, in a good way, but was considering the TFB750-A to give a little more edge to the mids without getting harsh, of course this is all guess work, I spose i'll have to get one on a trial and try it out.
Thanks again,
Peter
 
#8
Pietro said:
Hi
I recently purchased 2 x HS210 cabs and have been gigging using my SD800 but I'm not happy with the tone. There is something about the Markbass that just doesn't work for me, I've tried it with MB cabs for several months but it does not float my tonal boat, but that's another story. In the past I've used an Eden Navigator and Stewart 2.1 , through different cabs, and I like the Eden mids , much sweeter to my ear, however that rig has sadly died hence the need for a new head . I have been considering a TFB750-A and wondered if anyone has tried one with the HS210's ? I currently play a Sadowsky M5-24 . The band plays a variety of covers from Rage to Jamiroquai to Van Morrison, and everything in between. Very Loudly.
So I need power, tonally I like solid,tight lows, sweet prominent mids and subtle tops that won't slice my head off. I like an amp to be fairly versatile too, easily tweakable for bad sounding rooms etc
Thanks in advance for any suggestions/comments.

Peter
Click to expand...

Hey Peter,

I have a single HS210. Great cab. Regarding the SD800, that head is quite different sounding from the warm mids and punch of the LMII or F1 that many on TB rave about. The SD800 has a unique voicing (I used to own one) that works great with some cabs and not with others. I agree, the HS210/SD800 is not the best match.

The best match I've heard with my HS210 is the Aguilar AG500SC. The HS210, as you know, is very mid voiced, with a somewhat attenuated low end versus other 210's. The AG500 has a HUGE low end and rather polite mid mid and upper mid response. So, to my ear, they balance each other out beautifully. It's a big, fat, warm but still punchy sound.

I do not particularly like my TF550b matched with the HS210... too much 'mids meets mids'. However, the mighty TF750 is supposed to have much better bass extension and softer mids than the earlier, low power models, so I guess if you need massive volume and have the cash, that would be a pretty good match (just guessing).


The other head that has pretty much blown me away recently is the new Mesa M6 Carbine. It's very tight and much more on the solid state side of the hybrid continuum than the MPulse line of heads. It has amazing low end punch, and while I haven't heard it with the HS210, my guess is it would sound amazing, and be as loud as the TF750 for many hundreds of dollars less. It's an amazing head if you like it clean but with some aggressive upper mid and treble response. Highly recommended.
 
#11
Probably my favorite head with the HS210 is the (now discontinued) Glockenklang Heart-Core (which is a very different beast from the Heart-Rock). But I've also been very pleased with the results I get with a Walter Woods Ultra, Markbass LMII, and that new Mesa Boogie M6 Carbine is very good with this amp.

Tom.
 
#12
Once again thanks guys,
I've decided to go ahead with the TFB750-A, It's on it's way, so I'll post my findings for anyone who may be interested in this configuration once I've done a few gigs .
If it doesn't work out at least I have some good ideas of alternative heads to look at.
Cheers
Peter
 
#13
Pietro said:
Once again thanks guys,
I've decided to go ahead with the TFB750-A, It's on it's way, so I'll post my findings for anyone who may be interested in this configuration once I've done a few gigs .
If it doesn't work out at least I have some good ideas of alternative heads to look at.
Cheers
Peter
Click to expand...

That should be a killer stack. I think the 750a will extend the low end enough to really make that punch and fill out, and the power rating at 4ohms will be perfect for those two cabs. Let us know what you think after a few gigs!
 
#15
OK, for those interested, I finally got my TFB750-A and did a handful of gigs with the 2 x HS210 stack. Here are my thoughts.
Basically it did not work for me, to quote Kjung from another thread "too much mids meeting mids".
I play a Sadowsky M5-24. My current gig is rock and top 40 covers, so I need versatility and something that will punch through a wall of guitars, plus we play in some bad sounding rooms, and at times, unfortunately, too loud. Marshall quads.......say no more.
On one gig , standing close , about 2 feet in front of the rig, elevated about three feet, I could hear the rig well, and it responded very fast to my playing style which was great, but the mids were very dense, and I did a lot of tweaking to try and open it up a bit , but couldn't quite get it to my taste. (eg I like the upper mids of Eden heads )
The HS210's are as others have said a little shy in the lows, and started to break up a little when pushed hard in that range.
I haven't compared the TFB750-A to earlier TF's , but the 750 is certainly versatile eq wise, yet it's tone seemed strong/rich/dense in the lower mids when set flat. This really stood out to me as I have a Markbass SD800 which doesn't have particularly thick mids,to my ear.
The HS210's are also quite strong and smooth throughout the mids, I also liked the tweeters in those cabs, they gave the impression of holding more of the note and not just fret rattle and finger noise etc.
So put together there was a lot of thick mids going on, and as I said, even with tweaking it was hard to get away from what I perceived as the fundamental thick mid range tone of this match up of gear.
But to be honest this was a first impression and I felt it may be possible in time once I got used to the set up to tweak it to my "sweet spot" , so I thought I'd reserve my judgement and see how it performed on a big stage at greater volume.
At the next gig on the big stage, once again elevated, but standing about 6 feet in front, I really noticed the low end was a bit subdued and at the louder volume I felt the cabs were starting to lose their clarity and break up a bit.
I tried them on the floor as well to get bottom end coupling but although the lows were increased , I lost definition . So I felt the rig didn't really handle that situation well, (ie big stage, high volume, difficult stage to pull a good sound on) I have played other rigs that have powered through on that particular stage. I did the vertical stack thing at another gig, but that didn't really change my general feeling. So, sadly my overall impression was that the HS's and TFB weren't the best match up, at least in the playing situation I'm currently in. I think the HS210's with the right head in a less "demanding " environment would sound smooth and sweet and I would certainly consider them as an alternative cab for a situation other than my current one. They are not super punchy, but the mids, nice & smooth certainly have a presence. I think I understand now why some guys are using tube amps with these cabs, for those big blossoming lows people talk about. One guy told me he had a lot of success using a Glockenklang head too. I know others have had good results with different heads, but I think the shyness in the low end was what made me decide in the end to keep the TF and try another speaker set up. The HS210's are really portable too by the way, which was great.

The truth is, my original plan was to get an AE410 but the portability of two small cabs got the better of me.......so I'm swapping the HS's for the AE410.......back to plan A........I'm think I'm gonna be happier on stage with a quad box , and something a bit more forward in the upper mids ,and a bit heftier down low. I'm hoping the TF will fill out the lower mids of the AE and give me a full punchy sound.
Hope this may be of use to people, it's IMO of course and was based over a short period of use, but I'm happy to clarify any points if needed.
Regards
Peter
 
#17
Pietro said:
The HS210's are as others have said a little shy in the lows, and started to break up a little when pushed hard in that range.

Peter
Click to expand...

I've noticed the same phenomenon with my HS410 paired with the AG500 SC. On some stages I don't even have to punch in the deep switch and everything sounds marvelous. But in some occasions, when engaging the deep function and trying to raise the volume it starts to break up.

That's why I now intend to switch to the M-Pulse and see how it goes.
 
#18
Pietro said:
OK, for those interested, I finally got my TFB750-A and did a handful of gigs with the 2 x HS210 stack. Here are my thoughts.
Basically it did not work for me, to quote Kjung from another thread "too much mids meeting mids".
I play a Sadowsky M5-24. My current gig is rock and top 40 covers, so I need versatility and something that will punch through a wall of guitars, plus we play in some bad sounding rooms, and at times, unfortunately, too loud. Marshall quads.......say no more.
On one gig , standing close , about 2 feet in front of the rig, elevated about three feet, I could hear the rig well, and it responded very fast to my playing style which was great, but the mids were very dense, and I did a lot of tweaking to try and open it up a bit , but couldn't quite get it to my taste. (eg I like the upper mids of Eden heads )
The HS210's are as others have said a little shy in the lows, and started to break up a little when pushed hard in that range.
I haven't compared the TFB750-A to earlier TF's , but the 750 is certainly versatile eq wise, yet it's tone seemed strong/rich/dense in the lower mids when set flat. This really stood out to me as I have a Markbass SD800 which doesn't have particularly thick mids,to my ear.
The HS210's are also quite strong and smooth throughout the mids, I also liked the tweeters in those cabs, they gave the impression of holding more of the note and not just fret rattle and finger noise etc.
So put together there was a lot of thick mids going on, and as I said, even with tweaking it was hard to get away from what I perceived as the fundamental thick mid range tone of this match up of gear.
But to be honest this was a first impression and I felt it may be possible in time once I got used to the set up to tweak it to my "sweet spot" , so I thought I'd reserve my judgement and see how it performed on a big stage at greater volume.
At the next gig on the big stage, once again elevated, but standing about 6 feet in front, I really noticed the low end was a bit subdued and at the louder volume I felt the cabs were starting to lose their clarity and break up a bit.
I tried them on the floor as well to get bottom end coupling but although the lows were increased , I lost definition . So I felt the rig didn't really handle that situation well, (ie big stage, high volume, difficult stage to pull a good sound on) I have played other rigs that have powered through on that particular stage. I did the vertical stack thing at another gig, but that didn't really change my general feeling. So, sadly my overall impression was that the HS's and TFB weren't the best match up, at least in the playing situation I'm currently in. I think the HS210's with the right head in a less "demanding " environment would sound smooth and sweet and I would certainly consider them as an alternative cab for a situation other than my current one. They are not super punchy, but the mids, nice & smooth certainly have a presence. I think I understand now why some guys are using tube amps with these cabs, for those big blossoming lows people talk about. One guy told me he had a lot of success using a Glockenklang head too. I know others have had good results with different heads, but I think the shyness in the low end was what made me decide in the end to keep the TF and try another speaker set up. The HS210's are really portable too by the way, which was great.

The truth is, my original plan was to get an AE410 but the portability of two small cabs got the better of me.......so I'm swapping the HS's for the AE410.......back to plan A........I'm think I'm gonna be happier on stage with a quad box , and something a bit more forward in the upper mids ,and a bit heftier down low. I'm hoping the TF will fill out the lower mids of the AE and give me a full punchy sound.
Hope this may be of use to people, it's IMO of course and was based over a short period of use, but I'm happy to clarify any points if needed.
Regards
Peter
Click to expand...

Hello again Peter,

I'm sorry the TF didn't work out, but your description matches my experience with the HS210 and the TF550b (as you quote).

If you decide to get the AE410... DON'T SELL THE SD800! That head sounds SMOKING with that cab. The strong low mid punch of the AE410 really evens out the SD800, and the big, big lows of the SD800 really extend the rather tight low end of the AE410. It's a GREAT matchup. The upper mids get a little much, since both that cab and that head have a bit of a peak around 1K or so, but that's easy to roll out with the SD800's nice semi-parametric upper mid control.

So, if you do get the AE410, make sure to try the SD800... it is really a good match to my ears (although quite modern and aggressive, which may or may not be your thing).

K
 
#19
KJung said:
Hello again Peter,

I'm sorry the TF didn't work out, but your description matches my experience with the HS210 and the TF550b (as you quote).

If you decide to get the AE410... DON'T SELL THE SD800! That head sounds SMOKING with that cab. The strong low mid punch of the AE410 really evens out the SD800, and the big, big lows of the SD800 really extend the rather tight low end of the AE410. It's a GREAT matchup. The upper mids get a little much, since both that cab and that head have a bit of a peak around 1K or so, but that's easy to roll out with the SD800's nice semi-parametric upper mid control.

So, if you do get the AE410, make sure to try the SD800... it is really a good match to my ears (although quite modern and aggressive, which may or may not be your thing).

K
Click to expand...

A BIG +1.
Ive tried the Mark Bass LMK with th AE410 and it was my other favourite combination after the Glockenklang Heart Rock with the AE410. Knowing what the SD800 voicing is like which is very similar to the Glock the combination of the MB SD800 and AE410 should be even better than what it was with the LMK. Don't know if the Tfunk would've been my first choice to pair with the AE410. All the Mark Bass heads seem to work with the Berg AE line.
 
#20
MG Bass said:
A BIG +1.
Ive tried the Mark Bass LMK with th AE410 and it was my other favourite combination after the Glockenklang Heart Rock with the AE410. Knowing what the SD800 voicing is like which is very similar to the Glock the combination of the MB SD800 and AE410 should be even better than what it was with the LMK. Don't know if the Tfunk would've been my first choice to pair with the AE410. All the Mark Bass heads seem to work with the Berg AE line.
Click to expand...

+1 I'm using the F1 with my AE410 and just love it. It's BRUTALLY quick, tight, grindy and punchy (the grind mainly comes from that rig accurately reproducing the upper mid grind of my single coil J pickups)! The F1 sounds pretty darn good with everything (just like the LMII, as you state above). The SD800 is picky like the Walter Woods. It can sound harsh and have a lack of punch with some cabs. Not with the AE410. I didn't really need the extra volume versus the F1, so I ended up selling mine, and like the slightly warmer, tighter voice of the F1 with the AE410. But man, that pairing was the best I ever heard the SD800. Interestingly, my buddy Joel from the Groove Shoppe believes the AE410 is also the best Walter Woods cab he's experienced, which makes sense, since both the SD800 and the Walter have that aggressive upper mid response, and a bit of a hole in the 'punch' area.

IMO and IME!

K

PS I also did not like the TF550 at all with the AE410... again... too much mids versus mids and too much 'tight low end meets tight low end' for my taste.
 

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