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Bergantino and Thunderfunk
- Thread starter 64jazzbass
- Start date
Short answer: No.
Long answer: I didn't start out intending to reproduce an old design. I just starting building these after buying it as scrap. It was well received, and I started to think about how to make it better. Then I started to study the design and learned that transistor audio amp designs were bad in the '70's but matured in the '80's. I saw what was wrong with the design and changed it. This is a BJT design, not MOSFET. Transistors have lower distortion, are cheaper, have higher gain, and more output for a given supply voltage. I see no reason to fix something that isn't broken.
Digital amps are nice for making lots of power in a light weight package. The reason I don't go that way is you need FCC certification because of their high frequency (50KHz?) operation, and the problem of getting them serviced. For the same reason I only use through hole parts. How many service guys do you know that service surface mount components that I see in other amps? If you drop one of those parts on the floor, you'll never find it again.
I started designing electronics after working in a repair shop in the early '70's. I saw such junk that I knew I could design better, more easily serviced equipment. I started out working for Lowrey organ, and my latest job last year was designing comm/nav/fire-control electronics for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, and the Milstar military communication satellites. What a long strange trip it's been.
Long answer: I didn't start out intending to reproduce an old design. I just starting building these after buying it as scrap. It was well received, and I started to think about how to make it better. Then I started to study the design and learned that transistor audio amp designs were bad in the '70's but matured in the '80's. I saw what was wrong with the design and changed it. This is a BJT design, not MOSFET. Transistors have lower distortion, are cheaper, have higher gain, and more output for a given supply voltage. I see no reason to fix something that isn't broken.
Digital amps are nice for making lots of power in a light weight package. The reason I don't go that way is you need FCC certification because of their high frequency (50KHz?) operation, and the problem of getting them serviced. For the same reason I only use through hole parts. How many service guys do you know that service surface mount components that I see in other amps? If you drop one of those parts on the floor, you'll never find it again.
I started designing electronics after working in a repair shop in the early '70's. I saw such junk that I knew I could design better, more easily serviced equipment. I started out working for Lowrey organ, and my latest job last year was designing comm/nav/fire-control electronics for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, and the Milstar military communication satellites. What a long strange trip it's been.
BFunk said:
No more Kern + DB728? Any thoughts on how the Thunderfunk sounds relative to that combination? No doubt it's a lot easier on the back...
I am in the market for buying a new amp and will most likely be buying a Thunderfunk amp.
anyone know where the best prices are on one? anyone know if a used one being sold?
anyone know where the best prices are on one? anyone know if a used one being sold?
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mgmadian said:
Yeah, the Thunderfunk replaced that rig. That is a really tall order, believe me. I didn't think I could find a solid state amp that had the warmth and richness of an all-tube rig. I am not saying that the TFB420 sounds like a tube amp; but it doesn't have the thin, sterile sound I usually associate with SS. I tried several amps: Ampeg, SWR, EBS, Ashdown, Trace Elliot, etc. Then I tried the TFB. I plugged in and played a few notes. I knew then that this was my amp.
The amp really works so well in so many ways. First it has great dynamics. The transients are fast, punchy, and articulate. The limiter sounds really great for a built-in. Very tranparent. The eq section is first rate, easy to use, sounds good, and is very effective. The best features are the Enhance and Timbre controls. This allows some pretty radical changes to the overall sound with a couple of simple controls.
Some things I don't like are: no mute switch. I emailed Dave about this. He feels that one is not warranted. I disagree. I have an A/B switch on my pedalboard, so I am able to mute for tuning as needed. Timbre control, which is like an active tone control, is very sensitive. Small turns can make big changes in the sound. (A nit, really.)
I had to open up the amp to install the optional rack ears. The construction is really beautiful. Big caps and transformers. That is really essential to a good bass amp IMO.
lo-freq said:
See BFUNKS post below yours as to dynamics. Peak power? 566 watts. But what's important is where is that power used? Of course it's at the lowest frequencies, but I'm guessing it's like feedback. If you have a smooth microphone, it will be harder to feedback. A spikey mike feeds back easily, because it's only needs one "hot" frequency. The one that's feeding back. If you have an amp that's not smooth, it may use it's power to produce a bad sound, and the amount of power available is now irrelevant. You can just sound bad louder. An amp that's smooth will project cohesive sound into the room much better. If the sound coming out has excessive phase error, it can very well cancel itself. Notice the comments about being able to use a lighter touch. One of the things poor players didn't like about my tube amps was you could hear everything. Slightly miss a string, and everyone knew it.
Hi.Tony here.I just wanted to say that I have an AMP260, and I had an AMP BH420 for several years, and the Thunderfunk does live up to the standards set by those amps.I really liked my 420 for sheer balls and flexability, but I must say that the Thunderfunk is even lighter and a little more flexable.The Thunderfunk can be played with the lowest frequencies boosted all the way without distorting or clipping.I don't do that , but I have put it through the ringer several times and I have never been disappointed with the amp.I have many different speaker combinations that I have used with the head from a single 12" to two 4x8 cabinets, an Eden 118 and GK 4X10 and almost any combination you can think of, and the amp makes them all sound great.I highly recommend the amp for anyone who wants portability and sound quality in a small amp.I wouldn't give up my AMP either, but Dave has added many subtle improvements to a 20 year old amp that were needed.I would be happy to discuss the amp in greater detail with anyone who wishes.Tony Marchese , new member
One more quick plus on the Thunderfunk. The owner's manual is very well thought out and provides a lot more info than most other companies do.
Thunderfunk would like to welcome Beaver Felton's Bass Central as our newest dealer. Anyone near Orlando, Florida might want to stop in and check out their inventory of high end bass gear. They're going to match the head with an AccuGroove cabinet for demonstration.
I'm looking forward to checking out the Thunderfunk amps. I've been using the same AMP BH-420 on gigs for more than ten years. Amazing tone. Tried most everything else out there and still haven't heard a reason to change.
While my BH-420s (I have two, my main one and a rarely used one I bought as a spare) do push less efficient cabs I didn't want them to work too hard. With either my Nahas or Bag End cabs it's perfect. It'll be pretty cool to see if that really could be improved on.
While my BH-420s (I have two, my main one and a rarely used one I bought as a spare) do push less efficient cabs I didn't want them to work too hard. With either my Nahas or Bag End cabs it's perfect. It'll be pretty cool to see if that really could be improved on.
berklee46 said:
Have you tried one with your cabs yet?
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For anyone that's interested, I recently saw a Thunderfunk amp on bassgear.com that was basically new.
I'm curious about these as well. Looking forward to trying them.
I'm curious about these as well. Looking forward to trying them.
Here's the comparison.
The AMP takes 3 rack spaces, weighs 23 pounds, and puts out 400 watts. The Thunderfunk takes 2 rack spaces, weighs 16 pounds, and puts out 400 watts. The headphone jack is on the front instead of the back, and the Thunderfunk has a Speakon jack. The AMP has an adjustable crossover that you can use with a second amp. It's frequency adjustment does not match the numbers on the dial, being off about 20%. Not much of a problem. The Thunderfunk has a fan and extra heatsinking, 50% more power supply filter caps for a rounder low end (due to lower distortion), and better quality signal caps giving it a smoother high end and punchier mids.
I've seen posts saying there're other amps that are cheaper, but they don't compare the tone you get for the money. A customer wrote me and said he had spent thousands of dollars swapping out bass guitars, and then he found out it was his amp. I'm amazed by guys that justify buying some mass produced, out-sourced, almost good enough, "name brand" amp, and think they're being smart because they saved a few bucks. Your A.M.P. is the origin of the SWR and Eden amps. The fact that you still have it shows that you only had to buy it once. You've saved a lot of money. Now the problem is that they don't make them like that anymore.... or do they?
The first boutique, vintage reissue, handmade in America, bass amp. And it's brand new; smaller, lighter, sweeter, and cooler.
Pros know something most guys don't even think about. On a professional tour, you'll pay more in one year on freight charges than the cost of the amp. The best selling bass amp is made of steel, and weighs almost twice what mine weighs. But steel is cheaper. Fewer caps is cheaper. Ceramic caps are cheaper. Build 1,000 amps and $30-40 in extra parts for each adds up. Then you have guys saying my amp sounds better than amps costing $3000 (Walter Woods excepted) you gotta wonder why the big guys can't do what I'm doing. I could sell my amp for a couple of hundred dollars less, but then it wouldn't sound as good. I think it's silly to spend ALMOST enough money to get a good sound. I'm not into the mass produced "thang." I can only supply a few dealers. I wish I had more dealers, expecially inland, so more guys would have the chance to hear the amp in person. It'll take time, as most dealers sell what you want to buy. Word of mouth is spreading, but a lot of guys just don't believe an amp could be this good. NAMM in Nashville will help. Asking your local dealer about the amp would also have a big effect.
At the same time I get asked, "How does my amp compare to..." I'll say that I don't compare my amp to any others. I'm not chasing them or the market. I'm building the best amp I can. If you like some other brand, good for you. I will say that Bass NW, Alpha Audio, Boston Guitar, Bass Exchange, and Bass Central all took amps on trial, and all said yes within two days. And I'm especially proud that Mark Wright likes his amp so much. He could use any amp he wants. I will answer here a post by someone that said he saw my amp at the AccuGroove booth but it wasn't hooked up. It was hooked up, but with the number of speakers they had on display, they were using two switchboxes, and needed to use two amps. Whether my amp was being used depended on what box was being demonstrated at the time. The second Thunderfunk head had been taken out to use on a gig. I'm not complaining. I saw Steve Lawson in the booth on Sunday playing through my head, and he was out there. Oblivious. That's what I like to see.
Thanks,
Dave Funk
The AMP takes 3 rack spaces, weighs 23 pounds, and puts out 400 watts. The Thunderfunk takes 2 rack spaces, weighs 16 pounds, and puts out 400 watts. The headphone jack is on the front instead of the back, and the Thunderfunk has a Speakon jack. The AMP has an adjustable crossover that you can use with a second amp. It's frequency adjustment does not match the numbers on the dial, being off about 20%. Not much of a problem. The Thunderfunk has a fan and extra heatsinking, 50% more power supply filter caps for a rounder low end (due to lower distortion), and better quality signal caps giving it a smoother high end and punchier mids.
I've seen posts saying there're other amps that are cheaper, but they don't compare the tone you get for the money. A customer wrote me and said he had spent thousands of dollars swapping out bass guitars, and then he found out it was his amp. I'm amazed by guys that justify buying some mass produced, out-sourced, almost good enough, "name brand" amp, and think they're being smart because they saved a few bucks. Your A.M.P. is the origin of the SWR and Eden amps. The fact that you still have it shows that you only had to buy it once. You've saved a lot of money. Now the problem is that they don't make them like that anymore.... or do they?
The first boutique, vintage reissue, handmade in America, bass amp. And it's brand new; smaller, lighter, sweeter, and cooler.
Pros know something most guys don't even think about. On a professional tour, you'll pay more in one year on freight charges than the cost of the amp. The best selling bass amp is made of steel, and weighs almost twice what mine weighs. But steel is cheaper. Fewer caps is cheaper. Ceramic caps are cheaper. Build 1,000 amps and $30-40 in extra parts for each adds up. Then you have guys saying my amp sounds better than amps costing $3000 (Walter Woods excepted) you gotta wonder why the big guys can't do what I'm doing. I could sell my amp for a couple of hundred dollars less, but then it wouldn't sound as good. I think it's silly to spend ALMOST enough money to get a good sound. I'm not into the mass produced "thang." I can only supply a few dealers. I wish I had more dealers, expecially inland, so more guys would have the chance to hear the amp in person. It'll take time, as most dealers sell what you want to buy. Word of mouth is spreading, but a lot of guys just don't believe an amp could be this good. NAMM in Nashville will help. Asking your local dealer about the amp would also have a big effect.
At the same time I get asked, "How does my amp compare to..." I'll say that I don't compare my amp to any others. I'm not chasing them or the market. I'm building the best amp I can. If you like some other brand, good for you. I will say that Bass NW, Alpha Audio, Boston Guitar, Bass Exchange, and Bass Central all took amps on trial, and all said yes within two days. And I'm especially proud that Mark Wright likes his amp so much. He could use any amp he wants. I will answer here a post by someone that said he saw my amp at the AccuGroove booth but it wasn't hooked up. It was hooked up, but with the number of speakers they had on display, they were using two switchboxes, and needed to use two amps. Whether my amp was being used depended on what box was being demonstrated at the time. The second Thunderfunk head had been taken out to use on a gig. I'm not complaining. I saw Steve Lawson in the booth on Sunday playing through my head, and he was out there. Oblivious. That's what I like to see.
Thanks,
Dave Funk
Dave_Funk said:
Dave,
My TB420 has a Speakon + a defeatable fan, just wondering if there have been any (incremental) improvements made to even this newer model since its introduction... and (if so) how would I know if my TB420 already has these improvements?
If you have the new preamp board and six filter caps (USA model) then you have all the improvements. You can see a picture of the preamp board at:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
If you have the fan and the speakon, you almost for sure have the rest.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
If you have the fan and the speakon, you almost for sure have the rest.
Just got through my first gig with the Bergie/TF stack. Two EX112s in an outdoor (tent) gig. It was outstanding. I purposefully did not bring any effects pedals to see how the straight through performance would result.
I am floored. There is so much versatility in the TF head. I'm running the EQ all flat and just using the enhance control subtly to affect the overall sound. In my studio, I go a step deep (like a loudness control) but tonight in the open, I pushed it one step to the bright side and cut through great without losing the low freqs. There is superb definition to the entire bass frequency range. I used an active US Fender J-bass 4.
The comments about the rig and the sound of the whole band were all resounding praise.
I'm so pleased to have found a lightweight and truly professional rig.
I am floored. There is so much versatility in the TF head. I'm running the EQ all flat and just using the enhance control subtly to affect the overall sound. In my studio, I go a step deep (like a loudness control) but tonight in the open, I pushed it one step to the bright side and cut through great without losing the low freqs. There is superb definition to the entire bass frequency range. I used an active US Fender J-bass 4.
The comments about the rig and the sound of the whole band were all resounding praise.
I'm so pleased to have found a lightweight and truly professional rig.
Sounds like quite the rig, congrats! 
I'm interested in the Bergs myself. I've been considering the:
1. Berg HT322
2. Schroeder 410
3. Accugroove El Whappo
I'm undecided at this point, but I want a single cab that can provide a loud, clean volume level and handle my Roscoe's B-string.
Jim, Jorg, and Mark are all wonderful guys and have provided me with lot's of great info. I'd really like to try each cab personally, but that's impossible in my area.
Congrats again, Art.
I'm interested in the Bergs myself. I've been considering the:
1. Berg HT322
2. Schroeder 410
3. Accugroove El Whappo
I'm undecided at this point, but I want a single cab that can provide a loud, clean volume level and handle my Roscoe's B-string.
Jim, Jorg, and Mark are all wonderful guys and have provided me with lot's of great info. I'd really like to try each cab personally, but that's impossible in my area.
Congrats again, Art.
