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Berhinger, good or bad?

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#41
daffy said:
There was a fair bit of the actual filing info from the suit around on the net and it was over the look, writing and colour of the pedals.
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Have any of you ever considered the sheer amount of "free" publicity Behringer got from this ploy (and I don't know if the pedals ever actually existed in B*SS form, apart from ads and press releases).

The target market, for the most part, will buy them on price alone, and won't give a rats' about the "ethical" issues wept over by the high-minded here.

FWIW, and in a similar vein, there's a local shoe company ("Windsor Smith") which regularly advertises their products on high-exposure capital city billboards with scantily-dressed models, and suggestive double-entendres.

The feminists, wowsers, moralists, church-goers etc all rant at length about the ads, but the company gets publicity far in excess of what they put in, and the products (literally) walk out of the shops. :)

Perhaps Uli and his mates are rather smarter than some of you? :eyebrow:
 
#42
deebee said:
The target market, for the most part, will buy them on price alone, and won't give a rats' about the "ethical" issues wept over by the high-minded here.
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So true... oh well. The dreaded "high mind" i.e. "Conscience" thing. :rolleyes:

But then, any company that makes its crap in China, doesn't have a "Conscience" by definition.
 
#43
Well we've bought two amps in the school I work in and both have been brocken within 6 months. Not that they were unreliable - they haven't been around long enough to find out - but both have had knobs and spindles completely knocked off on door frames etc as they were moved about. In itself not such a big problem until you open them up as I did and find that the dinky little pots are soldered directly to the PCB right across all the controls behind the facia and there virtually no hope of mending them without a complete PCB replacement (which looks like half the guts of the amp BTW). I just don't see these two amps coming back into action without a repair job costing more than half what was paid for them - and I suspect in 6 months we'll be back there again.
 
#44
You obviously haven't opened an Acoustic, then.

I've got a 450 head which is ~30 years old (and, in general, built like a brick outhouse) and the graphic sliders and pots are all soldered direct to circuit boards.

As do Marshall, and most mainstream manufacturers these days ...
 
#48
From that "review":

" ...My feeling is however that probably the tube is connected and run very conservatively in order to prolong its life. Hence the heater current is too small to make the tube glow. And if it doesn't glow, what would have been the point of putting it on display? Hence the LEDs to compensate. Perhaps they were an afterthought ... ".

The clown didn't even bother to find out if the tube was connected preferring, like you sam, to run with his biasses and preconceptions. Another case fo lazy journalism.

FWIW, twin-triodes like the 12AX7 emit little filament glow, and running one on low filament voltage won't prolong its life, but KILL IT due to cathode poisoning! He's confusing the fact that they will run quite effectively on low anode voltages (eg about 15V), with no ill-effect.

And as far as using LEDS to simulate the filament glow, there was a Scottish-built amp about 20 years ago with imitation EL34s which consisted of ICs on circuit boards and LEDS inside an epoxy "tube", with octal socket, intended to simulate the real thing. It failed in the market.

And no, it wasn't Behringer ...:smug:
 
#50
deebee said:
The clown didn't even bother to find out if the tube was connected preferring, like you sam, to run with his biasses and preconceptions. Another case fo lazy journalism
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I beg your pardon? Who's running with his biasses? You refuse to admit that having LED's behind a tube is a con? I don't care whether it's connected or not! My Ampeg Tubes light up just fine without LED!. If that makes you feel better about your choice to buy from them, God bless, but don't deny a fact.. it's a con, nothing more.

Read my edit to my prior post.. LOUD settled a case with Behringer .. Loud makes Ampeg.. so I guess I have to subsidize Behringer's R&D, and their poor labor practices now?

Dude... Please.
 
#51
deebee said:
ROTFLMAO!!!!

Wonder how long it will be before Ampeg relent and introduce an "offshore" line like everyone else?

Or lose market share ...
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Sadly, Ampeg has had to ship their "B" (for Behringer competition I guess) Series line to China for that very reason, and in order to protect the company's health and preserve their primary SVT line, and it's US origins.. down to the US made Eminence speakers.. Ampeg swore to never ship the SVT line overseas.. time will tell, if they do.. I'll never buy another item from them. (this is not at issue today)

It's a dog eat dog world, and guys like you, who empower the likes of Behringer allow for this vicious cycle to continue.. :rollno:
 
#53
Geez, Sam, what are you ingesting?

The article you cite says, inter alia, " ... Under the agreement, the terms are to remain confidential and therefore, there will be no further or additional comment ... ".

Are you saying that LOUD/Ampeg are paying Behringer? According to some here, that'd be a first, lol! I don't even know what the case was, and now won't find out.

And as far as using LEDs to "improve" the appearance of tubes, I sort of agree, but the recent marketing trend to displaying "preamp" tubes behind grilles etc is also used by E-H, Mesa, ART and probably a whole lot more in stomp boxes and the like, and is a bit of a con anyway, given that the tubes usually don't do much apart from making the unsuspecting owner feel warm and fuzzy.
 
#54
I believe the EBS Fafner also has LEDs to simulate tube glow. They never hid the fact that it was only there for the visual effect. I never heard anyone complain about EBS using LEDs to spice things up. Is it an OK practice, just as long it isn't done by Behringer?

Behringer might be an unsympathetic and unethical company, but lighting up things with LEDs isn't a "con".
 
#55
deebee said:
Geez, Sam, what are you ingesting?

The article you cite says, inter alia, " ... Under the agreement, the terms are to remain confidential and therefore, there will be no further or additional comment ... ".

Are you saying that LOUD/Ampeg are paying Behringer? According to some here, that'd be a first, lol! I don't even know what the case was, and now won't find out.
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I'll spell it out..

The settlement is in favor or LOUD.. The courts CLEARLY found that their technology was being ripped off by Behringer.. So what I was saying is that LOUD was SUBSIDIZING Behringer, all the while Behringer is stealing market share due to

a) cheap labor
b) ripped off R&D (keeps their costs down)

Get it? or do I need to spell it out even more?



Tactician, Eminence told me that are making 100% of their speakers in the US, but it wouldn't surprise me if they set up sub-production over there for he B series Ampeg line, and Crate crap that LOUD makes..

Frankly, I don't care.. I buy top quality, and I sleep well knowing it's not made by teenagers working 14 hour days.... you do what you want! Peace out!
 
#56
Tactician said:
And Eminence have just announced a Chinese production line.
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FWIW, almost all Celestion musical instrument speakers are now made in China, not the UK (and some have been for a while).

So your 30 yr old 450 head was made where?
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In good old Van Nuys, Californ-ee-yay, USA 91406!

The thing you should remember is that these are modern manufacturing techniques which have reduced the cost of electronics gear relative to the CPI, and in the future, stuff with surface mounted components probably won't be repairable at all (on a component basis, just board replacement) irrespective of where it's made.
 
#58
Tactician said:
Did you know the guys out in China are making amps and cabs for the equivalent of $15 a week? How can that be fair?
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Most people don't care sadly.. they just want to save a buck or two.. the Corporations just want to increase their margins, and the cycle goes on..

Forget that the $15/week worker in China works 14 hours/day 6-7 days a week and burns out after 10 years...

Forget that the Chinese factories pollute the entire Asian rim

Forget that oil prices are thru the roof due to their demand.

Forget the Human/Religious rights violations done by China

Forget their attitude about Taiwan

Forget that they have Nuclear weapons aimed at the US/Taiwan/UK

Forget that they steal copyrighted software, music, and technology constantly

Forget that they only a couple of years ago shot down a US Navy P3

Forget that we're empowering them to one day take over the world! :eek:

There there is this fact.. Most made in China stuff is utter rubbish.. crap, garbage.. And apart form the occasional small electronic item mass produced on an assembly line, will not enter my home!
 
#59
Tactician: Is THAT why Ashdown has moved a fair bit of production there, lol?

Without getting into a discussion of Economics (which was my profession), there has always been "comparative advantage" in trade between countries.

In this case, Asia (and I guess some Eastern European countries - I see you're in the UK) do have the advantage of cheap labour in manufacturing. But, as they grow, this will decline, costs will rise, and it will move somewhere else.

And historically, the advent of steam power, the railways and mechanisation gave Edwardian/Victorian England a HUGE adantage in mass-producing commodities (think cotton products in Manchester), and effectively crushed competition in other countries still doing it manually.

Everything old is new again, but it's okay when "good guys" like us do it ... :)

And BTW Sam, the only Behringer product I own is a small mixer, and it's fine.
 
#60
deebee said:
In this case, Asia (and I guess some Eastern European countries - I see you're in the UK) do have the advantage of cheap labour in manufacturing. But, as they grow, this will decline, costs will rise, and it will move somewhere else.
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This is all academic in the real world..

How long before this comparative advantage goes away? One, two generations? So what do my Kids do for a living while we ship jobs and industry to the Godless commies?
 
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