Best 15” speaker

[agedhorse]

I'm sorry I asked!
No, I get it. I just had to read it twice.
A longer port, like Greenboy's deep option, and an EQ that bumps the lows right above where the cab unloads, then a HPF to keep it from unloading. Mechanically it works kinda like the Bag End ELFs. Right?

Yes, but like all of these different approaches for every dB of added power due to equalization, it takes away a dB of effective power handling relative to mid band performance.

The under-damped HPF acts like an integrator over a narrow range of low frequencies, which matches (more or less) the natural rolloff of the driver/system.

I used a similar approach though with a little different frequency/damping values for the LF Extend (LF Boost) switch on the Shuttle and ShuttleMax amps. The essential part of doing it this way is the absolute need for a steep HPF to protect the drivers.

 

[BassikBrad]

I think you will find that there is an error in the TS parameters... no way is that 8mH, I believe it's 0.8mH

Yes I know.

 

[agedhorse]

Yes I know.

Will lead to grossly misleading results. Maybe you can correct the sheet that you posted?

 

[Tim Rinkerman]

Except that it would be a terrible choice for any amp delivering more than say 100-200 watts (depending on the model) into the speaker. Maybe 150 watts if the cabinet tuning is not ideal.

You can put 500 watts into a JBL as long as you keep it clean. I come from a sound reinforcement background, but also deal with musicians on a daily basis and probably have prefaced my statement by asking if the original poster is looking for the speaker to provide its own character to the sound, or looking for a accurate transducer to replicate the sound the amp, efffects, and bass are producing. Two completely different schools of thought, both equally valid.

 

[SoulReflection]

You can put 500 watts into a JBL as long as you keep it clean. I come from a sound reinforcement background, but also deal with musicians on a daily basis and probably have prefaced my statement by asking if the original poster is looking for the speaker to provide its own character to the sound, or looking for a accurate transducer to replicate the sound the amp, efffects, and bass are producing. Two completely different schools of thought, both equally valid.

IDK about 500 watts...

 

[StereoPlayer]

I like speakers.


Thread of the day!

 

[agedhorse]

You can put 500 watts into a JBL as long as you keep it clean. I come from a sound reinforcement background, but also deal with musicians on a daily basis and probably have prefaced my statement by asking if the original poster is looking for the speaker to provide its own character to the sound, or looking for a accurate transducer to replicate the sound the amp, efffects, and bass are producing. Two completely different schools of thought, both equally valid.

Not into THOSE JBL drivers.

The E series has the best power handling of the three, but even so, the E-140 has a program power rating of 400 watts and an RMS power rating of 200 watts RMS. The K series is 300 watts program and 150 watts RMS, the D series is even lower.

Within these ratings (at least part of the OEM contract to manufacturers using these drivers) was the de-rating stipulation for musical instrument applications. For MI applications, the values should be de-rated by 50% because these applications are always presumed to include some compression, distortion and acoustic unloading (certainly in the days before HPF's this was an issue). For pro audio use, under IDEAL conditions, the RMS ratings were valid with the stipulation that no clipping or heavy compression was used, and under these conditions, amplifiers up to the PROGRAM power rating were generally considered safe.

No, under MI applications, 500 watts is not safe or recommended. In fact, it's a great way to ruin an otherwise excellent driver. I was in the touring side of the pro audio world for over 40 years, saw a lot of JBL product since I was a factory authorized service center back then and went through the JBL reconing school program (in 1980!!!) and designed OEM products for several brands using JBL components.

There are OTHER lines and models within JBL that have higher (and much higher) power handling, but the voicing was not really all that suitable for MI applications, so gradually JBL exited the MI side of the market entirely.

 

[Analogeezer]

You can put 500 watts into a JBL as long as you keep it clean. I come from a sound reinforcement background, but also deal with musicians on a daily basis and probably have prefaced my statement by asking if the original poster is looking for the speaker to provide its own character to the sound, or looking for a accurate transducer to replicate the sound the amp, efffects, and bass are producing. Two completely different schools of thought, both equally valid.

I have a couple of old (circa 1982) E-140's in some old folded horn cabinets (copies of the original EV Eliminator, the one from 1969) and I hit them all the time with 500 watts a piece from a QSC RMX-2450 used as the low end of a biamped setup.

They don't seem to mind it at all, never had a problem with them with that setup.

Now those speakers were reconed a number of times in the 1980's but that was because I was using them with an Acoustic 220 head that only put out 125 watts. I had to drive that amp into clipping all the time keeping up with Marshall stacks, and the rated power of that amp was at 10% THD. NOT POINT TEN, TEN PERCENT!

So yeah it would just heat up the voice coils and melt them eventually but I only reconed them a few times (one driver once, the other one twice) in 12 years of abusing them like that.

When I started using a rackmount system with a QSC Series I 1400 amp (200 watts per cabinet) I never blew another driver.

Analogeezer

 

[JohnnyBottom]

Will lead to grossly misleading results. Maybe you can correct the sheet that you posted?

I think it reads ................8mh LOL sorry

 

[BrotherRay]

@agedhorse, thanks! Always helpful!

@geeveebee, folks around here are very helpful, and trying to save you a lot of time, money and frustration. For instance, if you ended up trying one of the old JBLs recommended, with a modern high powered amp, you could blow it the first time you use it. If you put the wrong speaker in the wrong box, same thing. There are 15s that are excellent for a fEarful cabinet but in a single box would sound like mud.
It really is like asking "what's the best car?" What are you looking for? Speed? Safety? Storage room? Economy? A Prius might be best for economy, a Peterbilt best for over the road, a Volvo for safety or an Econoline for local deliveries and a 'Vette for attracting the ladies. And it is actually like that with 15" speakers as well. We could all say "buy an Impala" and you could be pissed because it has 4 doors!
No one here is trying to give you a hard time. They're trying to help. Don't alienate yourself to helpful folks.

 

[Tim Schnautz]

imo its hard to argue with a Peavey Black Widow

 

[bherman]

Fixed it for you With today's larger amps, extended scale basses, and expectations, Armageddon of today is an entirely different animal.



Very good point IMO.

Agree 100%. I spent a few hours playing with some fellow musicians (two excellent guitarists and a tasteful drummer - oxymoron, I know). One of the guitarists was gushing over his new Fender Tonemaster amp. It sounded great, had a variable attenuator that allowed him to dial down the output while keeping his sound the way he wanted it. I looked around back, and it was basically a 12" Jensen speaker inside of an open-backed plywood box. Probably wouldn't matter much what speaker was in there, it would basically sound the same. Not so for bass cab design.

 

[12BitSlab]

Me: Alex, I’ll take Best Speakers for $1,000
Alex: Best 15” speaker
Me: Who is Charlie McCarthy?
Alex: That is correct!

——————————-

Me: Alex, I’ll take Best Speakers for $2,500
Alex: Best speaker expert you should listen to
Me: Who is @agedhorse ?
Alex: Correct again!

 

[GreyBeard]

I’ve built lots of cabs. It’s never cheaper. All that stuff adds up, the corners, jack dishes, handles, grills, and the drivers spec’d for the better plans out there are premium drivers and you will pay more for that driver that what a cab manufacturers pays for theirs.

It is possible to build one that will be better than what’s commercially available if you build to a plan, or are an experienced speaker designer. The carpentry skills are not that difficult. But you have to decide if you really need one that’s better than one that is commercially available.

If you want to build your own, do it for the journey. It’s great if you are a maker or DIY guy and have tools and space. If you aren’t and don’t, it will become a PITA.

But again, it will cost more. There are tons of quality used cabs out there that can be had for pennies on the dollar.

This is gospel when it comes to building your own speakers. I have a complete shop with all sorts of wood working power tools as I make furniture too. If you don't have the tools and the skills to use them, this could be a huge waste of time and money.

 

[agedhorse]

imo its hard to argue with a Peavey Black Widow

In the right cabinet, it might be a great choice, or it might not. It depends on the tone goals of the player.

Agree 100%. I spent a few hours playing with some fellow musicians (two excellent guitarists and a tasteful drummer - oxymoron, I know). One of the guitarists was gushing over his new Fender Tonemaster amp. It sounded great, had a variable attenuator that allowed him to dial down the output while keeping his sound the way he wanted it. I looked around back, and it was basically a 12" Jensen speaker inside of an open-backed plywood box. Probably wouldn't matter much what speaker was in there, it would basically sound the same. Not so for bass cab design.

For guitar, I think the driver itself impacts mid tone very much, and since the low frequency energy is quite small (compared with bass guitar), open back or semi-open back speakers can end up being a very practical solution.

I have listened to the Tonemaster, I think Fender did a great job of capturing the entire Fender vibe with this series and part of it is due to the open back cabinet and driver choice. There is some serious engineering behind this series and the results show it. Just my personal thoughts here.

 

[Titch]

With all the listed Pros and Cons of cab building, desired outcome, not knowing what you don't know etc etc etc
I know exactly where you are (in terms of ideas) as I keep pondering the same thing and would love to build my own cabs now that I'm retired.
So, I'll try and give you a suggestion list of 15s I've used and had various success with.
Etone 15" from Australia in one of their designed cabs.
Very nice, warm, old school style but not super high on the wattage (150)
Heavy cab and speaker.
Celestion Bl15 300x 4 ohm and its 360watt 8 ohm predecessor all sounded gorgeous in my old Crate 15 cab.
No I did not do the maths. Just slapped one in to replace the dead speaker. Hoped for the best. Pretty pleased with the results too.
Wish I never got rid of that cab.
Orange OBC115 with its original Eminence speaker in it.
Whilst it's a brilliant cab and sounds great, it simply reached its limitations way to early to be playing loud rock stuff.
Super heavy. Thick Birch Ply.

Now I use a Mark Bass 152 cab that simply blows them all away in weight and flexibility.
It weighs less than the OBC115

 

[mexicanyella]

In the right cabinet, it might be a great choice, or it might not. It depends on the tone goals of the player.


For guitar, I think the driver itself impacts mid tone very much, and since the low frequency energy is quite small (compared with bass guitar), open back or semi-open back speakers can end up being a very practical solution.

I have listened to the Tonemaster, I think Fender did a great job of capturing the entire Fender vibe with this series and part of it is due to the open back cabinet and driver choice. There is some serious engineering behind this series and the results show it. Just my personal thoughts here.

The Tonemaster series amps generate a lot of conversation over at TDPRI, which by virtue of its Telecaster-centricity is a pretty Fender combo-friendly place. It seems the Tonemasters inspire some polarization (enthusing vs. naysaying).

I have yet to hear one but would love to sit down and try one or more sometime. It’s interesting to hear that you seem to respect the concept and effort behind them. If anything that makes me want to try them more.

 

[Aidenn7]

I’m looking to build a 15” cabinet. I’d like some opinions on the best speaker out there for this project. Much obliged.
Gregg

the biggest question is what you are playing and who are your influences are.. and what head you use..

but the eminence has a wide range for speakers.. neo speakers are light and loud.. but you to either pick a speaker to build a box around.. or find a box and have a speaker choose to fit that box..

I would honestly just get an ampeg portaflex or hartke hydrive.. used.. and start there.. if neither of those work.. try a mesa or bareface style..

 

[agedhorse]

The Tonemaster series amps generate a lot of conversation over at TDPRI, which by virtue of its Telecaster-centricity is a pretty Fender combo-friendly place. It seems the Tonemasters inspire some polarization (enthusing vs. naysaying).

I have yet to hear one but would love to sit down and try one or more sometime. It’s interesting to hear that you seem to respect the concept and effort behind them. If anything that makes me want to try them more.

I know the backgrounds of some of the guys (and gal) on the design team. There's a LOT of engineering and code writing behind what they did. As simple as it appears on the outside, there's ton of computational horsepower under the hood making the amp appear simple. That (IMO) is where their brilliance shines.

Of course DSP based amps are polarizing, but I think this series is more or less the "benchmark" of getting the user interface (for the target market) right. The fact that it sounds good, and is quiet, reliable and delivers convincing models makes it hard to ignore for players looking for the traditional Fender tone/feel/vibe/ etc.

This doesn't mean that I'm against analog, or anti-tube, or a traitor to tradition, but I recognize well executed designs where they stand out.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Getting back to the topic on hand, what's the best horse?