Best 15” speaker

[fdeck]

I’m not looking for the best. I’m not looking for random. I just want some recommendations so I can do my own research. Why is this so hard?

The reason is that it is in fact, hard. Through no fault of your own, you've bumped into a hard problem. There aren't really good ways of explaining speaker design that don't assume familiarity with either physics or engineering.

This is pretty likely to be a respectable design:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Take a design like this and figure out how to reproduce it, for instance by getting one of the free speaker design programs to reproduce the graphs. Ask yourself, why does Eminence recommend this speaker for bass guitar use? What makes it a bass speaker? What's happening when you go from large to medium to small? Which size would you choose?

 

[dkelley]

I’m not looking for the best. I’m not looking for random. I just want some recommendations so I can do my own research. Why is this so hard?

thread title "best 15" speaker"

haha - just had to say it.

But yea, I personally don't know. I love the entire range of eminence Deltalite II neo drivers, and dunno if there is a 15 in it but their 10 and 12 speakers are outstanding. They have a certain presence bump that sounds perfect to me while handling bass great and getting down deep in the right cab with right tuning.

all I got for ya. JBL made some of the best 15" speakers in history long ago and they are still unsurpassed, except in lightness of carrying them. Peavey had some amazing ones, as did other companies. Dunno what is what you'd be looking for, but I like light weight and great sound, hence my deltalite II neo suggestion

 

[pie_man_25]

The reason is that it is in fact, hard. Through no fault of your own, you've bumped into a hard problem. There aren't really good ways of explaining speaker design that don't assume familiarity with either physics or engineering.

This is pretty likely to be a respectable design:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Take a design like this and figure out how to reproduce it, for instance by getting one of the free speaker design programs to reproduce the graphs. Ask yourself, why does Eminence recommend this speaker for bass guitar use? What makes it a bass speaker? What's happening when you go from large to medium to small? Which size would you choose?

I thought Vb was "Volume of box," and V(total) included the driver and ports - if any - and if you made a cab with that internal volume, and ports of the same length and diameter, that would more or less approximate that low-end data.

 

[fdeck]

I thought Vb was "Volume of box," and V(total) included the driver and ports - if any - and if you made a cab with that internal volume, and ports of the same length and diameter, that would more or less approximate that low-end data.

That's my take on it as well. The question, as a direction for study, is why those box volumes were chosen, and how it affects both the measured behavior, and the sound. Why all of those graphs are important, and what we actually learn from them.

Others have also mentioned the EV TL designs. Those were quite popular in the day. I bought an EVM-15B driver, and it came with plans for the TL box. My take is that it is really just a basic ported box, albeit one with two different port tuning options, and designed to survive Armageddon. A lot of people found that they could stuff a number of different popular drivers into the same box and get pretty good results. And the design had the distinction of being pretty much the only published design that was readily available, at a time when Thiele-Small analysis was understood but hard to work with due to the lack of access to computers.

 

[dkelley]

Dear Gregg,
So sorry that people need to pile on here.
Here is my suggestions assuming reasonable price, quality, and up to a few hundred watts of power:

Many here have designed a cabinet around an Eminence Kappalit #3015 speaker with great results.
https://www.parts-express.com/Eminence-KAPPALITE-3015-Neo-15-Driver-290-597
Eminence can supply you with a drawing for the cabinet so that it will be tuned to that particular speaker.

OTOH, if you want to change the speaker from an existing cabinet, please supply the internal dimensions as well as any port dimensions so that a replacement speaker that is best voiced for the cabinet can be recommended.

please don't apologize for the logical and helpfully posted comments of others. Everybody is trying to be helpful and asking questions or suggesting what to research before asking these questions, and the OP was taking offense every time.

 

[monkeyfinger]

I wonder if the OP's friend with boxes is mostly accustomed to working with guitar cabs. I've come across many experienced guitar players who think bass cabs are just bigger guitar cabs. IMO, guitar cabs have a very different profile and use cases than bass cabs.

 

[FrankVidar]

I suppose spanish made Beyma 15P80FeN 8 ohms
Frequency range: 30 - 4000 Hz
Weight: 13.5 kg

The low B on a 5 string bass is 30,8 Hz and I suppose it is recommended to have a speaker that is designed for that.


https://usspeaker.com/beyma 15P80fe-1.htm

 

[lfmn16]

Oh. Funny. I have a sweet sweet rig. I’m good. I just thought I’d try a little project. I didn’t know you experts would be so peeved at my audacity. Never mind. What an unbelievably helpful forum! You go to people who know what they’re talking about and they tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about! Brilliant.

Being a jerk isn’t the best way to get help.

 

[Kaplan]

I suppose spanish made Beyma 15P80FeN 8 ohms
Frequency range: 30 - 4000 Hz
Weight: 13.5 kg

The low B on a 5 string bass is 30,8 Hz and I suppose it is recommended to have a speaker that is designed for that.

„The low B on a 5 string bass is 30,8 Hz“, Yes, that’s true, but you don’t want to hear that frequency at full volume in a band mix. Minus 12 to minus 16 db at 30 Hz is common. Most deep tones in a live context under 50 Hz are represented by their harmonics. You hear a 30 Hz note mainly by the first harmonic of 60 Hz. Nearly every bass cab can handle this. No need for more lower response.

 

[Auspuff]

I’m looking to build a 15” cabinet. I’d like some opinions on the best speaker out there for this project. Much obliged.
Gregg

Always had good luck, with JBL's.

 

[agedhorse]

That's my take on it as well. The question, as a direction for study, is why those box volumes were chosen, and how it affects both the measured behavior, and the sound. Why all of those graphs are important, and what we actually learn from them.

Others have also mentioned the EV TL designs. Those were quite popular in the day. I bought an EVM-15B driver, and it came with plans for the TL box. My take is that it is really just a basic ported box, albeit one with two different port tuning options, and designed to survive Armageddon [of that time period]. A lot of people found that they could stuff a number of different popular drivers into the same box and get pretty good results. And the design had the distinction of being pretty much the only published design that was readily available, at a time when Thiele-Small analysis was understood but hard to work with due to the lack of access to computers.

Fixed it for you With today's larger amps, extended scale basses, and expectations, Armageddon of today is an entirely different animal.

I wonder if the OP's friend with boxes is mostly accustomed to working with guitar cabs. I've come across many experienced guitar players who think bass cabs are just bigger guitar cabs. IMO, guitar cabs have a very different profile and use cases than bass cabs.

Very good point IMO.

 

[Gustopher]

Probably a Hartke with an aluminum cone.

I have a Hartke like this, it used to be a combo and I pulled the amp and use it as a cab… it’s indestructible and sounds fantastic.

 

[BrotherRay]

The driver’s performance was designed around the TS parameters (EVM series, post SRO) and then a series of cabinets (with a primary and a step-down tuning) were developed initially to sell drivers but were later used to design lines of cabinets in house.

@agedhorse
I know a little about TS parameters.
What is "step-down" tuning?

 

[agedhorse]

I suppose spanish made Beyma 15P80FeN 8 ohms
Frequency range: 30 - 4000 Hz
Weight: 13.5 kg

The low B on a 5 string bass is 30,8 Hz and I suppose it is recommended to have a speaker that is designed for that.


https://usspeaker.com/beyma 15P80fe-1.htm

I suppose it might be a good idea to review how the marketing numbers and the actual performance numbers in a speaker design might (or might not) relate.

In the case of this driver, in a 4 CF vented box, with about the best porting possible you can achieve the following:
F3=57Hz, F6=51Hz, F10=47Hz

Now to go lower, the box needs to become larger (up to the point that the driver remains linear within the box). Doubling the box size to 8CF (a large box by anybody's standards) we get the following:
F3=43Hz, F6=40Hz, F10=37Hz (That's still not 30Hz)

Doubling the box again to 18CF we get
F3=35Hz, F6=32Hz, F10=29Hz .

Sounds good until you normalize out the non-linearity which accounts for a whopping 6dB dip at 100hz, a result of the driver performing more linearly (as a spring-mass system) in a smaller box of around 3-4CF.

But in a box of 3-4CF, 30Hz is a whopping 25db down.

This is why understanding the math and what the math models represent is so important. This doesn't mean that it's a bad driver at all, but it has specific parameters for bass guitar that must be accepted and worked with. Also note that for a DIY project, this driver is close to $500 with tax and freight, and it weighs a whopping 28 lbs!!!

EVERY driver is a combinations of strengths and weaknesses, these parameters combine with box strengths and weaknesses to create a compete system with its own strengths and weaknesses.

No, it's not easy... in fact it can be very, very hard.

 

[SoulReflection]

I suppose it might be a good idea to review how the marketing numbers and the actual performance numbers in a speaker design might (or might not) relate.

In the case of this driver, in a 4 CF vented box, with about the best porting possible you can achieve the following:
F3=57Hz, F6=51Hz, F10=47Hz

Now to go lower, the box needs to become larger (up to the point that the driver remains linear within the box). Doubling the box size to 8CF (a large box by anybody's standards) we get the following:
F3=43Hz, F6=40Hz, F10=37Hz (That's still not 30Hz)

Doubling the box again to 18CF we get
F3=35Hz, F6=32Hz, F10=29Hz .

Sounds good until you normalize out the non-linearity which accounts for a whopping 6dB dip at 100hz, a result of the driver performing more linearly (as a spring-mass system) in a smaller box of around 3-4CF.

But in a box of 3-4CF, 30Hz is a whopping 25db down.

This is why understanding the math and what the math models represent is so important. This doesn't mean that it's a bad driver at all, but it has specific parameters for bass guitar that must be accepted and worked with. Also note that for a DIY project, this driver is close to $500 with tax and freight, and it weighs a whopping 28 lbs!!!

EVERY driver is a combinations of strengths and weaknesses, these parameters combine with box strengths and weaknesses to create a compete system with its own strengths and weaknesses.

No, it's not easy... in fact it can be very, very hard.

And that is why I leave design up to the pros...I am not messing with what they have learned and am prepared to pay for their expertise rather than the crap-shoot of trying to do it for myself.

 

[agedhorse]

The driver’s performance was designed around the TS parameters (EVM series, post SRO) and then a series of cabinets (with a primary and a step-down tuning) were developed initially to sell drivers but were later used to design lines of cabinets in house.

@agedhorse
What is "step-down" tuning?

Every speaker system has a range of tunings that can be used, which are prioritized by the application.

Step-down tunings in EV designs involve changing the porting to increase the low frequency extension, but this comes at the cost of power handling and a little low frequency sensitivity. This is done electronically by applying a corrective underdamped HPF which has a Q of 2. This has a natural peak of 6dB at the corner frequency and a protective rolloff below this. This requires additional power which reduces the apparent power handling of the speaker by the same amount. Mechanically, it involves blocking off of the ports (IIRC, turning it into a sealed box).

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/TL440_Engineering_Data_Sheet.pdf

(note that he driver used in this box is quite robust)

 

[mmbongo]

View attachment 4535312
View attachment 4535313

The one on the bottom looks like a USA Made Eminence. Probably a very high quality speaker!

 

[BassikBrad]

I’m looking to build a 15” cabinet. I’d like some opinions on the best speaker out there for this project. Much obliged.

Gregg

I'll keep it simple.
Over many years, I have tried what people recommend here on Talkbass, none of them were very good, IMHO.
However, I can strongly recommend one for you to check out from WGS :

I put this in a 4cuft birch ply sealed cabinet & it measures & sounds great, infinitely better than all those others
I tried. If I were to do another, I would go for a 5cuft cab.
Good luck with your project. PM me if you want more info.

 

[BrotherRay]

Every speaker system has a range of tunings that can be used, which are prioritized by the application.

Step-down tunings in EV designs involve changing the porting to increase the low frequency extension, but this comes at the cost of power handling and a little low frequency sensitivity. This is done electronically by applying a corrective underdamped HPF which has a Q of 2. This has a natural peak of 6dB at the corner frequency and a protective rolloff below this. This requires additional power which reduces the apparent power handling of the speaker by the same amount. Mechanically, it involves blocking off of the ports (IIRC, turning it into a sealed box).

https://products.electrovoice.com/binary/TL440_Engineering_Data_Sheet.pdf

I'm sorry I asked!
No, I get it. I just had to read it twice.
A longer port, like Greenboy's deep option, and an EQ that bumps the lows right above where the cab unloads, then a HPF to keep it from unloading. Mechanically it works kinda like the Bag End ELFs. Right?

 

[agedhorse]

I'll keep it simple.
Over many years, I have tried what people recommend here on Talkbass, none of them were very good, IMHO.
However, I can strongly recommend one for you to check out from WGS :

View attachment 4536018

I put this in a 4cuft birch ply sealed cabinet & it measures & sounds great, infinitely better than all those others
I tried. If I were to do another, I would go for a 5cuft cab.
Good luck with your project. PM me if you want more info.

I think you will find that there is an error in the TS parameters... no way is that 8mH, I believe it's 0.8mH