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Double Bass Best Amplification Setup - Your Favorite Recordings (and what we know about them)

Steve Freides

Steve Freides

Former Mannes College Theory Faculty
Supporting Member
Dec 11, 2007
2,576
1,508
Ridgewood, NJ
#1
Seeing this thread earlier today ...

For Sale - Gary Peacock’s New Standard bass

... caused me to look up Gary Peacock and listen to the Keith Jarrett trio recording here:



... which caused me to react, "Gee, that's just a fantastic amplified upright sound - how'd they do that?"

So, if anyone can comment on the gear being used, we know the bass, and we know the player.

Thanks in advance for your replies, and you're welcomed to add you own "favorite recorded/amplified upright bass sound" and we can talk about some more.

@dperrott

-S-
 
#5
Steve Freides said:
Seeing this thread earlier today ...

For Sale - Gary Peacock’s New Standard bass

... caused me to look up Gary Peacock and listen to the Keith Jarrett trio recording here:



... which caused me to react, "Gee, that's just a fantastic amplified upright sound - how'd they do that?"

So, if anyone can comment on the gear being used, we know the bass, and we know the player.

Thanks in advance for your replies, and you're welcomed to add you own "favorite recorded/amplified upright bass sound" and we can talk about some more.

@dperrott

-S-
Click to expand...


That is probably his English bass. He quit using it many years ago. It had too much bottom end to it. He found that made it difficult to hear in large halls. The New Standard bass doesn't have a lot of low end to it. He thought the low end got magnified in those big halls. He used to use a fishman bp100. Think it was glued on instead of using the clips. Then he was using the full circle. I think amp wise he was using SWR stuff. I think sound wise and playing wise, his duo with Ralph Towner "Oracle" is my favorite.
 
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#7
Yes
bassmanbrent said:
I knew GP played an english bass made by Samuel Allen (at least I think that was the maker - known primarily as an archtier) for a long time. Didn't know about a Hawkes though...
Click to expand...
Yes people are confusing the Allen with a Hawkes. He never had a Hawkes. At one point he had a German that had darkened edges like a French bass.
 
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#8
I had the pleasure of providing Gary with a bass and amp twice for concerts in St. Louis. He used the 3/4 Carved Knilling circa 1930 that my wife owns, with
an Ehrlund EAP, Grace Designs Felix and a powered MAS 4x5.5. He liked 4x10 SWR and Eden cabinets that he used his older Walter Woods MI series amp
to power. He also used a local players Eden amp once.

That's a dual channel Walter Woods MI series amplifier most of them were 100 watts, but
Walter did build a few 400 and 600 watt versions. The cabinet is an Ampeg most likely a
2x10 but it could be a 1X15. You can clearly see him adjusting the volume on the Woods amp
which he carried with him all over the world touring with Keith. He told me that Keith toured 1st Class on their own private plane, so he could take his instrument with him and not
have to hassle with commercial airlines. He was a lovely man.
 
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#10
Don Kasper said:
I guess we have different definitions of "...fantastic amplified upright sound". (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
To each his own, etc.
IMFO, of course.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I have no way of knowing how they mixed his signals, but to me it sounds a lot more like a typical piezo pickup sound when he's playing in the low range of the bass, and more natural (microphone like) as he moves up towards the neck heel and beyond. I think the tone is very good in the those upper positions (especially for the time), but yea, the lowest positions leave a lot to be desired IMO.
 
#11
bassically_eli said:
I have no way of knowing how they mixed his signals, but to me it sounds a lot more like a typical piezo pickup sound when he's playing in the low range of the bass, and more natural (microphone like) as he moves up towards the neck heel and beyond. I think the tone is very good in the those upper positions (especially for the time), but yea, the lowest positions leave a lot to be desired IMO.
Click to expand...
I hear it as very compressed in all registers - it sounds like a direct pickup feed, (very sustained, buzzy, and colored), which was very popular at the time, (and continues to be.)
I saw this trio 2x in the late 90's and early 2000's and both times was unimpressed with GP's sound. (Love-d his playing, though, mostly.)
I have a theory that players of his generation were just happy to finally have pickups which allowed for the bass to be louder, even though the sound quality was, shall we say, compromised.
See/Hear the recorded output of G. Mraz - even his sound on his studio duo recordings with T. Flanagan are kind of icky. (see below).
IMFO, of course.
Thanks.
 
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#12
Well,
In George’s particular case, the Wilson 4 element was his pickup of choice at the time. NHOP also used one. Their virtuoso solo
technique required a pickup that would track them. My friend Tom Kennedy used a Wilson as well. The other pickups available
at the time i.e. the Underwood, Fishman, etc would blur/smear notes together. They sounded ugly to my ears, but hey, it’s George Mraz.
:)
 
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#13
Steve Freides said:
Seeing this thread earlier today ...

For Sale - Gary Peacock’s New Standard bass

... caused me to look up Gary Peacock and listen to the Keith Jarrett trio recording here:



... which caused me to react, "Gee, that's just a fantastic amplified upright sound - how'd they do that?"

So, if anyone can comment on the gear being used, we know the bass, and we know the player.

Thanks in advance for your replies, and you're welcomed to add you own "favorite recorded/amplified upright bass sound" and we can talk about some more.

@dperrott

-S-
Click to expand...

I think you are hearing 50/50 (or some ratio of) mic and pickup.
There is a large diaphragm mic about a foot and a half away from his bass aimed at the G string side. The pickup is direct. I don't see a mic on his speaker cabinet.

It's too direct for my taste. I like a mix of anywhere from 75/25 to 85/15 mic to pickup- just enough direct signal to get some percussive definition and to beef up the low end.
 
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#15
It's a very delicate balance to record a pickup and microphone together, and what often ends up happening is the engineer will habitually favor the pickup many times.
I tried to post a better example from a Billy Childs recording featuring George
on Dolphin Dance. But the owner has it restricted. I'll put a audio clip up later.
 
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#17
Ric Vice said:
Well,
In George’s particular case, the Wilson 4 element was his pickup of choice at the time. NHOP also used one. Their virtuoso solo
technique required a pickup that would track them. My friend Tom Kennedy used a Wilson as well. The other pickups available
at the time i.e. the Underwood, Fishman, etc would blur/smear notes together. They sounded ugly to my ears, but hey, it’s George Mraz.
:)
Click to expand...
Thanks. I always thought George used an Underwood.
 
#18
It seems to me that in more recent years the more capable engineers are using multiple mikes for recording that I've been involved with rather than the mike-pickup combo, one on the body and one farther up the fingerboard. This seems to work better than the pickup mix. I imagine there could still be phasing issues but it does avoid the "electric" sound. The subtle balance between the two mikes is obviously crucial and it still takes good ears to get the best results.
 
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