Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
- 30,452
- Disclosures
- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
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Best bass head and cab for drop A deathcore
- Thread starter Anit bassist
- Start date
- May 9, 2008
- 4,081
- 1,236
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Springvale Studios
We are not wrong actually, while the best 18 sound 6 inch may be as much as 103 dB spl 1 watt 1 meter which can be massively improved to 105 db with the jbl type six inch plastic horn.
An eden 8 X 10 XLT produces 108dB of pure honk at 1 watt 1 meter.
You just cant beat loads of speaker coupling for efficiency.
Yes a single Eminence 3015LF will beat the pants off most 8 X 10 cabs at 40 hz.
But the last thing this bass player actually needs is flat extended frequency response, he needs nasty bright forward mid with huge coupling efficiency and loads of speaker area.
And as many watts as all those drivers will take.
The guitards will drop below where he will want to be heard.
he just gets to poke through an area just above where the 3015LF is in fact being steeply crossed out by the Fearful dividing network.
PS. Horses for courses mate.
Decisions have not yet been made, I'm still researching and am open to everyones opinion. I am defiantly after a clanky mid/bright tone to push past the massive low end that my 2 guitarists peavey 5105+ are already delivering. They both have orange cabs which sound amazing, but of course i can hardly be heard atm.
I don't know why some people think Ampeg has no low end. I used an 8x10 with an SVT 4 and we were tuned to B. That set up would hurt everyone in the rehearsal room. Very low and defined.
It's hard for folks who've never heard a fEARful to believe it until they hear it. Understandable. I had to hear it for myself, but when I did, ohh boy, I was happy. I was preparing to audition for a Doom band where the previous bass player used an ampeg 8x10 with an old acoustic 360 tube amp. It was loud. He had to keep up with 2 guitar players, each would play either 1 or 2 4x12 cabs depending on the venue.
I was worried two fEARful 15/6/1 cabs would not be enough, hence my post on the greenboy site about putting 4 cabs together and was told I wouldn't need it but I was still skeptical.
Once I heard the fEARfuls at Ron Anchak's shop I realized that the 2 15/6/1 cabs I ordered from him are going to be way louder than I need. Loud and Clear. Turns out I really only need 1 cab for most things I do. I think greenboy states that fully driven one 15/6/1 cab gets the SPL of a 6x10.
SPL from one 15/6/1 cab I get around 120 db using 165 watts of power. At Ron Anchaks shop we hooked up the amp and put a sound meter 3 feet (meters) away and measured the voltage going to the cab. Quick voltage to watts at 8 ohms calculation, 120 db at 165 watts. It can safely take close to 800 watts continuous.
One 15/6/1 with around 800 watts running through it can hit 126 db. 2 15/6/1 with 1600 watts or so will hit 132 db. That will kill small pets and set car alarms off around the block...
SPL reference for fEARful cabs: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] and scroll down until you see the cart with the SPL charts for the various configurations of fEARful cabs.
With my setup I am using a jazz bass, boosting both the high and low mids, rolling the treble back just a tad, adding a bit of grit to the sound, and it sounds loud and fantastic through the fEARful.
i can understand that these fEARful cabs must be loud and seem to have a good rep. but i dont play jazz, or rock or even metal. i play in a technical DEATHCORE band. very fast, loud drums. very loud 2x guitarists and a loud vocalist. i just cant see how a cab such as the 15/6/1 could push as much air as an 810 cab could. ive read 410's move more air than any 1x15" could, thus an 810 moves more air than a fEARful ever could?
has anyone had any experience with the GK 1001rb-II on the ampeg 810e who plays in a death metal, or any metal band?
has anyone had any experience with the GK 1001rb-II on the ampeg 810e who plays in a death metal, or any metal band?
Just to clarify, I don't think 1 15/6/1 could push as much air as an 8x10, but 2 15/6/1 cabs definitely.
The reason it can push a lot of air is that the 3015LF driver has a 9.X mm of excursion vs. 4.X mm of excursion of other 15" drivers (I don't know the exact numbers). Each push of the 3015LF will move almost 2x the air of many other 15" drivers. That with the proper cab design, midrange driver, and crossover (the cross overs are seriously heavy duty) is what gets the fEARful to where it is.
Max SPL on an Ampeg 8x10 is 130db according to their website.
SPL with a fEARful 15/6/1 cabinet is 126db
SPL with a fEARful 2x 15/6/1 cabinet is 132db.
Nothing wrong with an 8x10 for what you are doing, just offering alternatives. I don't know much about Deathcore, I will check it out, but I thought Doom Metal may have been close enough.
Here's a link to 37 reviews of the GK head at musicians friend:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I haven't read through all of them but there has to someone in there running an 8x10. This head will do 700w to the woofer, 50 to a horn. The 8x10 cabinet by Ampeg I believe is 800 watts rated at 4 ohms. I would personally look at the Ampeg SVT-7 Pro, it will probably be a good matchup with an Ampeg 8x10. The SVT-7 Pro has 1000 watts at 4 ohms so should drive the 8x10 as much as you need and have some headroom left over.
Disclosure: I just purchased a SVT7Pro but it's enroute so I cannot comment, but others with fEARfuls using the SVT7Pro say its a real pounder. I'm sure it will kick butt with an 8x10.
From the fEARful FAQ posted by Scogman:
A 15/6 is as loud as most 310 cabs with one watt input, and more extended in response. With a lot of watts it can get as loud or louder than a 610 driven to its limits, and will sound fuller and more responsive while doing it.
If you have the watts and a 15/15/6/6 or 15/6 and sub, you could get louder than two 610s (clearly louder than a single 8x10) and not driving the fEARful to its limits yet. You'll also get fantastic amounts of lows and much greater midrange dispersion with perfect clarity, and you'd probably save some weight as well.
I'm a fan of the fEarful design and a friend of Greenboy's, but don't be selling the 810 format short. It didn't get to be the number one most used pro bassist setup over the past 40 years or so because it wasn't any good. It's a great sound and a great performer.
Pushing air? Volume displacement.
Eminence Legend B-810 Vd=165.2cc
Eminence Kappalite 3015LF Vd=846.0cc
8 of those 10s = 1321.6cc
2 of those 15s = 1692.0cc
Not that those 10s are actually what comes in an Ampeg 810, but they are intended as replacements so they are probably in the ballpark. (Does anybody know what the Vd of the stock drivers is?) Any given 8x10 could certainly be less... something loaded with drivers more like Eminence Delta 10As could come in under 1000cc.
Pretty clear cut, if you want to talk pure air movement. And that's before considering the cabs themselves, or ported vs sealed in general.
I hope I didn't come across as selling the 8x10 short. I Agree 8x10 is the workhorse of Rock and Roll. I borrowed an 8x10 off and on for many years in the 80's and liked the sound better than my 15" cab on top of 18" cab setup I had. Now I know why, shouldn't have mixed the 15" and the 18". Probably would have been better with 2 15s back then.
However, I really like the fEARful for the modularity and sound. Quite frankly a single 15/6/1 is fine for me. I'm getting excited to see how the Ampeg SVT-7 Pro sounds thorugh the fEARful. Tom Bowlus says it rocks. 600 watts into 1 cab and 1000 watts into two cabs if I ever needed I think would be a real thumper.
Be sure you wear ear plugs.
Check this Ampeg/fEARful rig out: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/fearful-part-twelve-12-a-790568/index18.html#post11433941 I suggest you talk to Adbass about it.
Or this 3800 watt, 2 2x151566 rig: http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Plstrns
Check this Ampeg/fEARful rig out: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/fearful-part-twelve-12-a-790568/index18.html#post11433941 I suggest you talk to Adbass about it.
Or this 3800 watt, 2 2x151566 rig: http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.php/Plstrns
Here's an article written by Alex of Barefaced in which he states "a typical ferrite 10" will have a Vd of ~100cc", which would make an 8x10's Vd ~800cc if it uses "typical" drivers.
You actually made cogent comparisons.Holy Guaca-Moly! That should handle ANY-CORE just fine. Forget ear plugs, I'd wear mickey mouse ears* and and a kidney belt if I stood in front of that with any volume. Heck, maybe even a G-suit.
* "mickey mouse ears" are what you see ground crew on the aircraft carriers wear when they are launching the jets...
Mr. Foxen
Commercial User
It probably isn't air you need to move so much, that will give you low end presence that means you actually contribute tot he sound but it won't be what you hear as notes (your ear can't really discern pitch in true low end), the 15 in the Fearful gives you this bit, lows like a good PA, if you play bigger gigs, the PA should cover you for this, the sort of gigs where 8x10s are provided, because they don't do that low and interfere with the PA. The Fearful driver is not a typical 15 from a bass cab, it is more akin to a PA sub driver, it doesn't need to sacrifice its low end for highs like a bass cab driver. It has a midrange driver to cover the higher stuff, and that is important, as that is the bit you hear as notes, it doesn't need to be big because it doesn't need to move much air, and because it is not big, you can hear it off to the sides. The downside of the PA sub type driver is it needs many watts, however, watts are cheap an no longer heavy, so that isn't much of an issue.
The 8x10 uses many midrange drivers, because it is designed for when a 300w amp was the biggest you could get (actually supposed to use two of the original ones). It sacrifices low end for volume without much power. Later ones with high 'wattage' rating sacrificed high end to take more power from newer amps, although the rest of the design wasn't updated. The downside of this loads of midrange drivers approach is they tend towards being a bit directional and don't go much lower than guitar cabs, the big Orange cabs go very low if your guitarists are cranking 100w+ amps into them. An 8x10 won't sit below them, the lows out front come from the DI into the PA, and the midrange clunk gets you hearing what you are up to on stage.
The Fearful can do the midrange for your monitoring from its little driver, and do the PA lows from the big driver, fed enough power. The 8x10 will be big and heavy and get very loud to the ears without much power. The lack of real lows makes the sound guy happy since it won't interfere with his subs, plus he knows how they sound. The Fearful means you basically can use the DI and it will sound the same out front, so you don't need the sound guy so much, as it sounds like what you put in.
That is midbass, rather than actual lows. You don't hear actual lows, you feel them.
- May 9, 2008
- 4,081
- 1,236
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Springvale Studios
What frequency is the passive inductor based low pass filter in the Fearful progressively switching off the 3015LF?
I believe its 300Hz?
I was under the impression we where comparing the ability
of one 6" loudspeaker cone operating in a band of 400 Hz
to 800hz versus eight close coupled 10" loudspeakers with no crossover losses.
Now do your calculations again class.
Whats the X max of the 6 inch mid driver?.
If you bothered to build a 12dB per octave passive crossover as the Fearful design suggests why the **** are we talking about the output of a 3015LF.
To get through a barrage of very low frequency scooped down tune guitar he will need to be about power centered within the same frequency of a bee in a bottle.
With the dink off the triggered kick sample just above at C2K
and low of the kick is going to be hitting at 68hz.
above that is guitar bass.
I believe its 300Hz?
I was under the impression we where comparing the ability
of one 6" loudspeaker cone operating in a band of 400 Hz
to 800hz versus eight close coupled 10" loudspeakers with no crossover losses.
Now do your calculations again class.
Whats the X max of the 6 inch mid driver?.
If you bothered to build a 12dB per octave passive crossover as the Fearful design suggests why the **** are we talking about the output of a 3015LF.
To get through a barrage of very low frequency scooped down tune guitar he will need to be about power centered within the same frequency of a bee in a bottle.
With the dink off the triggered kick sample just above at C2K
and low of the kick is going to be hitting at 68hz.
above that is guitar bass.
