You can build a fEARful 12/6 for less than $400. That's way cheap even without considering it's performance.
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See? You have great sound quality and fabulous Fender tone at an affordable price. Deep; Loud, Small, and Light. Go right ahead and spend $5,000.00 in order to get better. I don't mind.
For me, I have a lot of irons in the fire right now. Live gigs swing from 2 person singer/song writer gigs, to full on psychedelic stoner rock. Recording is usually done via my Reiner pre amp right now.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,068
- 5
- 221,130
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
So, may I ask what you think engineers actually do for a living?
The answer to your question is "of course".
May I now ask a question?
Why is it that a large part of the speaker buying market doesn't care about anything but price?
I don't know what kind of sound do you like, but if you like 4x10, markbass and gallien krueger models weights 48.28, 55.66 and 60 lbs.
I did not state my question very well. I'm not concerned about price except in the fact that 2 10 inch speakers are going to cost more than 1 15 inch speaker of the same design.
A lot of people seem to be answering the question of which manufacturer makes the best lightest cabs.
I'm actually interested in which single cab of any given manufacturer (be it Peavey, Barefaced, Fender) Theoretically *should* move the most air without getting too big to be a pain to move without a cart or something.
I agree there's a lot of subjectivity here. The answer seems to be proportional to how young and spry the owner is. I guess it's a stupid question.
But there seems to be a consensus that between 32 and 35" is the ergonomic sweet spot for a proper bass scale length for an average adult human. In my mind there ought to be an ideal ergonomic shape of box for a human to move around. Obviously lighter is better and modern technology affords us to carry bigger boxes alone than we could before. But size itself gets to be cumbersome at some point. What configuration of speakers fit that box best? (assuming you only get to carry one box)
I definitely care about price. I want to i
Well, this may also seem to answer the question "which light cabinet is the best?" as well as your actually question, "where is the sweet spot between full blown power/air moved and smallest possible size?"
Since "cost" isn't a parameter in the balancing, I'd argue that the Barefaced BB2 is the sweet spot for a single cabinet than can do the most with the least effort of moving.
There are more powerful cabinets; such as the Barefaced Big Twin, or any number of others; but this BB2 single 12 cab can handle 800 W all day long, so it's plenty powerful;it moves the air of a typical 2x12. There are smaller cabinets; even within the Barefaced line-up, the Super Compact is only 23 pounds, and the One10 is just 15 pounds. The Aguilar's I have been using (SL-112) are 25 pounds. The Big Baby is 26 or 29 pounds depending on grill type. But, The One10 will handle 250, but not the big power of a BB2.
BB2 is an easy one-hand carry at 26-29 pounds, and is quite powerful and moves a lot of air. There are cabs that are lighter/more easy to transport, and there are cabs that can produce more total volume (by having 2 to 4 speakers on the cab). But, I doubt that there is a sweeter spot in ease-of-load vs power/sound than the Big Baby 2. The problem is that they are not cheap, if if you throw that into the calculus then maybe you get a different answer. As far as I know, you are not including that parameter.
EDIT: the "sweet spot" for cabinets will change with technology; the "sweet spot" of bass scale length, as you refer to, remains relatively unchanged becasue humans and human hands remain farily constant, unlike audio and psychoacoustic technology. Maybe some amazing new kind of bass might change that.
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Well, this may also seem to answer the question "which light cabinet is the best?" as well as your actually question, "where is the sweet spot between full blown power/air moved and smallest possible size?"
Since "cost" isn't a parameter in the balancing, I'd argue that the Barefaced BB2 is the sweet spot for a single cabinet than can do the most with the least effort of moving.
There are more powerful cabinets; such as the Barefaced Big Twin, or any number of others; but this BB2 single 12 cab can handle 800 W all day long, so it's plenty powerful;it moves the air of a typical 2x12. There are smaller cabinets; even within the Barefaced line-up, the Super Compact is only 23 pounds, and the One10 is just 15 pounds. The Aguilar's I have been using (SL-112) are 25 pounds. The Big Baby is 26 or 29 pounds depending on grill type. But, The One10 will handle 250, but not the big power of a BB2.
BB2 is an easy one-hand carry at 26-29 pounds, and is quite powerful and moves a lot of air. There are cabs that are lighter/more easy to transport, and there are cabs that can produce more total volume (by having 2 to 4 speakers on the cab). But, I doubt that there is a sweeter spot in ease-of-load vs power/sound than the Big Baby 2. The problem is that they are not cheap, if if you throw that into the calculus then maybe you get a different answer. As far as I know, you are not including that parameter.
EDIT: the "sweet spot" for cabinets will change with technology; the "sweet spot" of bass scale length, as you refer to, remains relatively unchanged becasue humans and human hands remain farily constant, unlike audio and psychoacoustic technology. Maybe some amazing new kind of bass might change that.
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Too many variables.
If "any manufacture" used all the same drivers a comparison could be made. But they don't.
Some manufacturers don't even use the same OEM for all the drivers in the same line(Mesa Subway). Everybody makes the compromises that hit their target price/performance ratio.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,068
- 5
- 221,130
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Moving air is not an important factor in bass cabinets. If it was, I could easily design a cabinet that could move air, and a lot of air. That's the job of a fan.
There are a lot of competing, interrelated variables that ALL contribute to the performance of a bass cabinet. EVERY SINGLE SOLUTION involves a compromise between all of these variables.
There are a lot of competing, interrelated variables that ALL contribute to the performance of a bass cabinet. EVERY SINGLE SOLUTION involves a compromise between all of these variables.
But really the most ergonomic shape for a human body to carry around would be: whatever shape you can convince someone else to carry for you. We are all different sizes. Me and Mr. WC have the (pretty much) same cabinets but there is about a foot difference in height(won't mention age). Completely different ergonomics.
Now I want a "speaker" that is actually a net of electronics I wear on my body that uses my entire body as the speaker. That would be efficient to carry.
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Volume of air moved IS an important consideration. That is a function of both speaker size, and excursion.
I got the 410 because I only wanted one cab and this one sounds great at both low and LOUD levels. Down-side is that it's a 410 and is comparatively heavy. If you want to go the modular route, it's hard to beat getting up to four 8-ohm 12" speakers and taking what you need for the occasion. With most 112's, two of them together sound better than just one because of the coupling when you put them together. But one is all you need for small gigs and coffee-house venues. Two of them will be all you need for small to medium size gigs and if you play larger gigs, adding a third and fourth will give you crazy amounts of volume. Of course to use three or four of them, you need an amp that will handle a 2 ohm minimum load, so don't even think of more than two if your amp only handles a 4 ohm minimum load.
As far as Eden 112's go, the best ones are the D-series but the EX112's are great and street price is typically $249 vs. $419 for the D-series. So you could get two of those for just under $500. Both series handle 300 watts each but the D-series has a flat response down to 32hz (low B) whereas the EX-series flat response goes down to 42hz (Low E). If you play around on the low B string of a 5-string a lot, then the D-series is the better choice because it will give you good volume on the fundamental as opposed relying on the first harmonic.
Now the DNA DNS-112 cab is a whole 'nother deal. It will handle 450-watts and has flat response down to 32hz. Max SPL is 129db, so it's LOUD on it's own. A friend of mine, Lane Baldwin, got two of them when they first came out and went on tour with an Elvis tribute band, playing lots of different venues including county fairs which were typically outdoors. He almost never brought the second 112 out because just one of them was enough for even medium-sized gigs. One of these will handle almost everything two of any other 112 cabs will. Two is killer. But....it's not cheap. Street price is around $699 per cab.
So great sound, modular system, low-price, I'd say take a look at the Eden EX112's. If you live on the low B string, you should consider getting two of the Eden D-series or the DNA DNS-112's. As I mentioned, one of the DNS-112's will handle most gigs. Regardless of whose 112's you look at, I think multiple 112's are the way to go for a good modular system as opposed to carrying a 410 everywhere.
As far as Eden 112's go, the best ones are the D-series but the EX112's are great and street price is typically $249 vs. $419 for the D-series. So you could get two of those for just under $500. Both series handle 300 watts each but the D-series has a flat response down to 32hz (low B) whereas the EX-series flat response goes down to 42hz (Low E). If you play around on the low B string of a 5-string a lot, then the D-series is the better choice because it will give you good volume on the fundamental as opposed relying on the first harmonic.
Now the DNA DNS-112 cab is a whole 'nother deal. It will handle 450-watts and has flat response down to 32hz. Max SPL is 129db, so it's LOUD on it's own. A friend of mine, Lane Baldwin, got two of them when they first came out and went on tour with an Elvis tribute band, playing lots of different venues including county fairs which were typically outdoors. He almost never brought the second 112 out because just one of them was enough for even medium-sized gigs. One of these will handle almost everything two of any other 112 cabs will. Two is killer. But....it's not cheap. Street price is around $699 per cab.
So great sound, modular system, low-price, I'd say take a look at the Eden EX112's. If you live on the low B string, you should consider getting two of the Eden D-series or the DNA DNS-112's. As I mentioned, one of the DNS-112's will handle most gigs. Regardless of whose 112's you look at, I think multiple 112's are the way to go for a good modular system as opposed to carrying a 410 everywhere.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,068
- 5
- 221,130
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Perhaps I should have said "the MOST important" factor...
I was trying to point out that taking one factor, ANY factor, out of context is simple minded and foolish within the context of the OVERALL function of a bass guitar speaker.
Speaker size and displacement are just two out of many factors that a real speaker designer considers when developing either a driver or a complete speaker system.
For example, I could easily design a speaker that had tremendous displacement, many cubic feet, but the tradeoff might be unacceptable bandwidth, sensitivity, or distortion components.
The OP's question is not an easy, one answer solution. For anybody to think so just shows a gross lack of understanding of the subject. I encourage learning as much as possible if this is what interests you, for anybody to make bold statements without understanding the depth of the topic serves nobody's interests.
