Those truss rods are a thing of beauty! I would buy one in an instant if they were available.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Best Quality DA Truss Rod?
- Thread starter Gilmourisgod
- Start date
Those truss rods are a thing of beauty! I would buy one in an instant if they were available.
I have two left for another six string build. I would also buy more if they were still making, even though these cost me $50 US each. Two of these rods weight less then one steel.Those truss rods are a thing of beauty! I would buy one in an instant if they were available.
That's not outrageous, the Allied Lutherie ones are $44.00 but they are Stainless, not Titanium!
jeez, came here to see if there was anything I should know about aside from allied... and got my hopes up with titanium rods... then down - no longer mfg!
I'll reiterate exactly what has been said... when putting together a build 6string or bass... and spending 1k on parts and 50+ hours of my time... seems silly to save $35 on a truss rod.
for me, they way I like to build... truss rod is not going to be removable... so it's a no brainer.
on a few of my first builds (before I knew of allied) I got some on evilbay and some from bitterroot. def appear to be the sm thing but bitterroot admittedly does a better job on qc'ing them. consistently they were easier to turn and that seems to make a big dif under tension.
that said... the allied luthier truss rods turn so easy I would be more concerned I might break my neck with them! they are lighter, they look great, options for t-bar and spoke wheel plus maple/mahog sheath! as mentioned - they are deserving of the biz - super nice folks making a fantastic product. They also make a new low profile (probably more for guitar) and I'm all about trying one of those out on a super thin neck build in the future.
Idk if they've got it under control now... but looking online - thread after thread about hot rods breaking... plus they are heavy and super deep and require a special bit. wouldn't be interested for any one of those reasons let alone all 3. the stew low profile looks an awful lot like the other chinese rods offered by any number of other folks, and considering the existence of bitter root... have never tried one.
have never tried lmii either... and figured they might be a nice alternative... but having read above... think I'll stick with allied for the present.
I'll reiterate exactly what has been said... when putting together a build 6string or bass... and spending 1k on parts and 50+ hours of my time... seems silly to save $35 on a truss rod.
for me, they way I like to build... truss rod is not going to be removable... so it's a no brainer.
on a few of my first builds (before I knew of allied) I got some on evilbay and some from bitterroot. def appear to be the sm thing but bitterroot admittedly does a better job on qc'ing them. consistently they were easier to turn and that seems to make a big dif under tension.
that said... the allied luthier truss rods turn so easy I would be more concerned I might break my neck with them! they are lighter, they look great, options for t-bar and spoke wheel plus maple/mahog sheath! as mentioned - they are deserving of the biz - super nice folks making a fantastic product. They also make a new low profile (probably more for guitar) and I'm all about trying one of those out on a super thin neck build in the future.
Idk if they've got it under control now... but looking online - thread after thread about hot rods breaking... plus they are heavy and super deep and require a special bit. wouldn't be interested for any one of those reasons let alone all 3. the stew low profile looks an awful lot like the other chinese rods offered by any number of other folks, and considering the existence of bitter root... have never tried one.
have never tried lmii either... and figured they might be a nice alternative... but having read above... think I'll stick with allied for the present.
Yep. A couple of years ago, I developed out several versions of my special truss rod, designed so that they were very simple to install. Foolproof, nearly indestructible, built-in backstrap and stiffeners. All combined into a rectangular cartridge; rout a slot in the neck and glue it in. All the engineering done for you. I made up the tooling, made prototypes, tested them with several veteran Luthiers. They worked beautifully in supporting and adjusting the neck, and they all agreed that my design made a significant improvement in the sound of their basses. Should be a great product for pro Luthiers, right?
The problem was the cost. My cartridge truss rods were fairly complicated to build, and I would have to sell them for $75-$100. That was waaay too expensive for Luthiers to accept. Out of the question for hobby builders. Even veteran pros who sell their instruments for $5K really didn't want to spend more than $15 for a truss rod. The guys who tried them in their necks acknowledged how well they worked. But they still couldn't justify the cost. I eventually gave up on the project and put all the tooling (literally) on the shelf.
And I've generally given up on building neck structures and truss rods and other hardware for other Luthiers. Partially-machined necks were a big part of my business for about 15 years. Then sadly, three of my biggest clients passed away. So, I'm winding down that part of my business. I still make custom truss rods for a few Luthier friends, but I'm not really trying to find more clients. There's no money in it. Most Luthiers today are barely scraping by financially, and all they care about is the lowest price for materials and hardware.
Bruce, you are a true pioneer and it's a good thing people like you exist to continue to push the evolution of musical instruments, even if other people sometimes fail to adopt the improvements.
It'd be supremely ironic (but also extremely cool) if you were to go for a dual rod setup like Alembic or Rickenbacker on this build
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
Yes that price was 8 years ago with a discount for buying 6 pcs. Wonder what they would charge now if they made them?
Just to give you an idea of the price of the materials used to make truss rods:
Right from McMasters, the cost of 3/16" diameter rod stock, 3' long:
4140 steel: $13.82
O-1 tool steel: $4.52
12L14 steel: $5.97
304 stainless steel: $4.66
7075 aluminum: $29.56
Grade 2 titanium: $18.60
Grade 5 titanium: $33.16
Obviously, these prices are high, because they are for a single 3' length. But this shows the ratio of prices for different metals. I have made truss rods from all of these metals.
These days I make all of my truss rods from 304 stainless. I buy 3/16" 304 stainless rod stock in 12' lengths from Industrial Metals, for about $6 each.
Looking at my standard Double-Acting Single-Rod truss rod, the cost of all the materials is about $5.50, and the labor is about $10. That's to make up each kit of the rod, anchor, and rotating head assembly, in batches of 5-10 at a time. Installation in a neck, in a bed of epoxy, is $15 labor. I charge most of my clients $30 to put one of my truss rods into their neck blank.
Right from McMasters, the cost of 3/16" diameter rod stock, 3' long:
4140 steel: $13.82
O-1 tool steel: $4.52
12L14 steel: $5.97
304 stainless steel: $4.66
7075 aluminum: $29.56
Grade 2 titanium: $18.60
Grade 5 titanium: $33.16
Obviously, these prices are high, because they are for a single 3' length. But this shows the ratio of prices for different metals. I have made truss rods from all of these metals.
These days I make all of my truss rods from 304 stainless. I buy 3/16" 304 stainless rod stock in 12' lengths from Industrial Metals, for about $6 each.
Looking at my standard Double-Acting Single-Rod truss rod, the cost of all the materials is about $5.50, and the labor is about $10. That's to make up each kit of the rod, anchor, and rotating head assembly, in batches of 5-10 at a time. Installation in a neck, in a bed of epoxy, is $15 labor. I charge most of my clients $30 to put one of my truss rods into their neck blank.
Last edited:
I've done a lot of different versions: headstock access, heel access; spoke wheel nut; steel, stainless, aluminum, titanium, different anchor ends for special applications, etc.
Here's the most common version: Double-Acting Single-Rod, headstock adjust, set into a maple blank for a tilt-back headstock. I've done at least 800 of these for Luthier clients.
Here's the components laid out before assembling into the neck: The rod, the head assembly, carbon fiber TOW for the backstrap, maple filler strip.
The slot is partly filled with West Systems epoxy, The TOW bundle is laid in the bottom, the rod and head assy are waxed and fitted in, more epoxy, filler strip. The brass mandrel plugs the access hole.
After curing, the filler strip is trimmed off and the top surface is re-surfaced. This is the completed installation as it goes to my customer.
Here's the same DASR truss rod installed in a vertical strip of maple. Ready to be laminated into a neck.
And here's the cartridge truss rod prototypes. A DASR truss rod, heel access, spoke wheel version, assembled into a cartridge with aluminum reinforcing plates. An all-in-one neck core structure, designed to glue down into a simple routed slot.
The components that make up the assembly.
Gluing one up in the special fixture. All filled with epoxy, no air gaps inside.
The cartridge truss rods were a cool idea, and the few that I tested in Luthier customers' basses worked beautifully. But they were too expensive to make and it would have been tough selling them. The project got shelved.
Freekmagnet
Commercial User
Yeah, the difference though, @Bruce Johnson, is that your truss rods are designed to affect or enhance the performance of the neck. In theory, you'd think that a luthier would want to spend extra money for a better truss rod. That's right there is a smart allocation of overall production costs.
Those titanium rods, while they are beautifully crafted, are functionally the same as the steel rods. Unless you're trying to save weight or you're worried about ambient moisture penetrating the neck enough to rust out the truss rod or if you're building a concept bass out of aerospace-grade wood, it just isn't a practical expenditure for a part that is functionally exactly the same and is hopefully never going to see the light of day.
What doesn't make sense to spend $30 on a truss rod from LMI if you can buy basically the same mass-produced truss rod for $10. If it's spot-welded in China or the US, it doesn't really make much difference. Don't get me wrong - I'm all about supporting USA labor seeing how I am USA labor myself. For that extra $20, I should expect that the truss rod will be significantly better.
Those Allied Lutherie rods seem to be the best compromise - for the roughly the same price as the LMI rods, you're getting a USA-crafted product that at least looks like it's better-made.
Those titanium rods, while they are beautifully crafted, are functionally the same as the steel rods. Unless you're trying to save weight or you're worried about ambient moisture penetrating the neck enough to rust out the truss rod or if you're building a concept bass out of aerospace-grade wood, it just isn't a practical expenditure for a part that is functionally exactly the same and is hopefully never going to see the light of day.
What doesn't make sense to spend $30 on a truss rod from LMI if you can buy basically the same mass-produced truss rod for $10. If it's spot-welded in China or the US, it doesn't really make much difference. Don't get me wrong - I'm all about supporting USA labor seeing how I am USA labor myself. For that extra $20, I should expect that the truss rod will be significantly better.
Those Allied Lutherie rods seem to be the best compromise - for the roughly the same price as the LMI rods, you're getting a USA-crafted product that at least looks like it's better-made.
Last edited:
Just as an FYI, I've only used a few LMI rods and they are NOT spot-welded, and they look entirely different than what was shown in the #16 post. Both sides of the LMI blocks had continuous welds down the sides and they worked smoothly.
I'd be so incredibly ***ed if I even spent $10 on a rod that resembled post #16. I'd also be ashamed to send an instrument out to someone else with one of those rods because I would have a strong suspicion what would happen a few years down the road. Maybe some would be OK with taking the "nobody's gonna see it.." path, but I personally wouldn't choose to do that.
It's good to hear that the LMI rods are better than the Bitterroot or All Parts rods.
The cool thing is you learn as you go along. So many of the people guiding me on builds on other forums and online thought the Bitterroot rods were fine for building and highly recommended them! Of course these were also used in guitars with a much shorter neck than any bass, but I agree with your assessment.
Another thing that bugged me about those cheap rods is that you had to route the nut end differently than the rest of the rod. The route needed to be wider and deeper to accept the nut and the way it is mounted to the rod.
Just reading this one thread has opened my eyes to what kind of quality of truss rods that is actually available. In fact earlier this week I ordered an Allied Lutherie 24 inch truss rod for my build. I truly appreciate the information and knowledge shared on this site and can't wait to get the truss rod.
I'm not sure a sweeping statement like that is accurate. I think we need to be careful about drawing conclusions. The many bitterroot rods I've bought and installed have all had clean, correct, surprisingly-good-looking-for-a-cheap-product welds. Not the messy welds in the earlier posted photo. I've handled more than two dozen of their rods across 4 lengths and all three of the styles they've carried (the blue wrapped two way and dual action, and the no longer available black wrapped) and the welds have been consistently good like this every time. I know there were indications earlier in the thread that these imported blue and black wrapped rods may all come from the same factory, and that may or may not be correct, but there are absolutely differences between at least some of them. It is very clear to me that the rods bitterroot carry are different than the ones in the earlier photo. Besides the weld quality, the threaded blocks look like they're different sizes (longer on the bitterroot rods).
I don't want to sound like I'm promoting their product or trying to imply that other products are, or are not, good. I'm just trying to share facts as I've seen them personally, and people can make up their own minds. It's always a challenge when there are a number of vendors selling similar looking products.
Hey Rudy,
Is this the LMII truss rod you were referring to?
Truss rod double action welded, custom length
It's definitely appealing to have a straight thru 1/4" route rather than the extra width route at the end
I may go this way on a future build.
Thanks!
Yes, The LMI rods come in standard lengths as well as custom lengths for no additional charge. The fit in a 1/4" slot, the only thing you have to do is a few file strokes over the weld area to make sure that any small parts of the weld that protrude are leveled off. Here's an example of sliding the rod into a channel for a slot head 6 string guitar.Hey Rudy,
Is this the LMII truss rod you were referring to?
Truss rod double action welded, custom length
It's definitely appealing to have a straight thru 1/4" route rather than the extra width route at the end
I may go this way on a future build.
Thanks!
Maybe it was just the way I read it, but it sounded like you were not happy with the quality of the rods in the photos. No big deal, you straightened that out.
The photos are mine, as are the rods. More photos were taken focusing closely at the welds. The Blue one is a Bitterroot rod and the black ones were ordered from All Parts.
This first photo shows one of the All Parts rods and you can see that the weld actually cracked! When loading the photos to the site I noticed a second one that is cracked. It's only on one side but these rods will be thrown out as I do not have access to a welder. If someone wants them, you are welcome to them, just pay for shipping and they're yours. A reminder, these are guitar length.
The other photos are just for examination and education.
Thanks for sharing Rudy! Looking good there!
Like your recent short scale bass, I’ll route to the heel for access at that end.
