Best super fast cabs for hifi/transparent sound

[DubDee3]

I was going to hijack my own recent post on the relative benefits on a pair of 210s VS a single 410, but I figured it might be better to start clean and reformulate my thoughts. (I've searched all over but haven't found quite the info I'm looking for, at least not for 2023.)

My rig = Aguilar TM 700 into either an Aguilar SL210 or SWR Goliath III 410, depending on the situation. (I've had the SL210 for a few months, and the Goliath since 2000.)

The more I play it and become familiar with the SL210's response, the less favorably it compares to the Goliath.

To my ears, in a nutshell: The GIII is my all-time favorite cab. Those drivers are lightning fast, punchy as hell, and really make my bass sing. Whatever you want to call it –hifi/transparent – that's the sound that made me want to play bass in the first place. I love love love it. The platonic ideal of a bass sound for me.

In comparison, the SL210 gets the job done, but isn't the dream cab I'd hoped for. It feels relatively flabby, wooly (love that word), and just lacks the "snap" of the G3. Sort of "anti-hifi" to my ears. Would probably be perfect for someone with a different style.

But...the GIII is SO much bulkier than contemporary neodymium cabs! I was hoping the SL210 might be my solution, but it seems not to be.

So it boils down to this...

Are there any 410 or 210 neo cabs out there that approach the hifi/transparent sound and blazing speed of my GIII? Or is that just impossible, based on the physics?

What about the much smaller Goliath Jr III? Never played one, but would consider one if the tone & response were pretty similar to the GIII.

If I added a second SL210, would that just magnify the issues of flabbiness I have, or would the response change?

Thanks for bearing with me in my pursuit for a smaller rig that matches the GIII's performance!

 

[agedhorse]

What your are perceiving as hi-fi is actually a very bright cabinet without a lot of (balanced) low frequency extension and a dominant high mid voicing. This is in fact the characteristics that the SWR tone was based on.

If you can find a used SWR GoLite cabinet, that might be an option. Be sure it all works though.

 

[abarson]

Glockenklang Duo Art 210 and EBS NeoLine 210 come to mind as having somewhat similar characteristics to what you describe.

 

[Killing Floor]

Some of the older Acoustic cabs were able to make 1,100 feet/second.

 

[Arjank]

This is in fact the characteristics that the SWR tone was based on.

IMHO SWR's never sounded hifi to me (lot's of coloration), they severely lack in quality of the mid range. Years ago I did a one on one comparison between one of those classic SWR 210's and my 210 cab with coaxial mid (which has studio-monitor characteristics). It was a day and night difference.

 

[agedhorse]

Some of the older Acoustic cabs were able to make 1,100 feet/second.

Terminal velocity?

IMHO SWR's never sounded hifi to me (lot's of coloration), they severely lack in quality of the mid range. Years ago I did a one on one comparison between one of those classic SWR 210's and my 210 cab with coaxial mid (which has studio-monitor characteristics). It was a day and night difference.

The unique voicing of the SWR cabinets was desirable to those seeking the more modern sound and they sold a lot of those cabinets. The original PAS 10” drivers were the fundamental aspect of that voicing, but as the power amps got more powerful, their reliability became an issue. Had SWR used an effective HPF, or might have changed that trajectory.

 

[Killing Floor]

Terminal velocity?

Definitely banana plugs are the best terminals for high velocity.

 

[--Vissinger --]

Is that because fruit flies like a banana, whereas time flies like an arrow?

 

[The Rage]

I'm still searching for a similar cab. I like lots of hi mid grind.
I've read that EBS and Eich may be the most similar choices, but I've never had the chance to try them

 

[LHbassist]

Terminal velocity?


The unique voicing of the SWR cabinets was desirable to those seeking the more modern sound and they sold a lot of those cabinets. The original PAS 10” drivers were the fundamental aspect of that voicing, but as the power amps got more powerful, their reliability became an issue. Had SWR used an effective HPF, or might have changed that trajectory.

I thought the first SWR Goliath 4-10's, with the giant rear port- that I played through- were astoundlingly different from everything else that was common at that time. The driver excursion was really visible, and the cabs sounded great. After owning one much later on, I began to feel that they had some insurmountable drawbacks that turned me in a different direction. The weight, and the rear port, is something I won't go too much into- but I do not like rear ported speaker cabinets. I encountered a lot of the Goliath Jr. 2-10 cabs, at jams, rehearsals, and owned and loved by a number of friends. I've never heard one that to my ears, didn't sound pretty awful, even at 'reasonable' volumes. I owned a Triad, a great concept- but poorly built, and it literally tried to take itself apart for as long as I owned it. When I traded it- it had more sheet rock screws holding it together than a Los Angeles condo. I really, really want to like a lot of gear that gets rave reviews, and is in obvious favor with bassists. But we do no all hear the same things. Hi-Fi to me, might not be what the O.P. thinks is Hi-Fi.
One cabinet I owned that was pretty much ineffective as a gigging cab- was a Euphonic Audio VL-210. It had four speakers and a tweeer- with two crossovers. It just distorted too easily for me. THAT SAID, if you weren't playing with a drummer- it might have been the most 'Hi-Fi' sounding cabinet I've ever owned. As a low volume- near field cabinet- it sounded wonderful.
I sold it, because, I'm 71 now, and no longer the buffed up 'superman' construction laborer I once was! lol! - it was 74 pounds, and I need a small cabinet to play in actual bands, live, in clubs and casinos. My 44 pound Carvin -yes, Carvin- BRX 10.2 Neo first edition Eminence speakers 2-10 cabs are literally, to me- the best 2-10 I have played through. I own two. I've played through a couple of expensive Phil Jones rigs. Those sound very good- but those small drivers, to my old school ears, just really don't cut it live.... maybe a 4k multi cab setup would change my mind, but those days are over for me.

 

[jdjk7]

I was going to hijack my own recent post on the relative benefits on a pair of 210s VS a single 410, but I figured it might be better to start clean and reformulate my thoughts. (I've searched all over but haven't found quite the info I'm looking for, at least not for 2023.)

My rig = Aguilar TM 700 into either an Aguilar SL210 or SWR Goliath III 410, depending on the situation. (I've had the SL210 for a few months, and the Goliath since 2000.)

The more I play it and become familiar with the SL210's response, the less favorably it compares to the Goliath.

To my ears, in a nutshell: The GIII is my all-time favorite cab. Those drivers are lightning fast, punchy as hell, and really make my bass sing. Whatever you want to call it –hifi/transparent – that's the sound that made me want to play bass in the first place. I love love love it. The platonic ideal of a bass sound for me.

In comparison, the SL210 gets the job done, but isn't the dream cab I'd hoped for. It feels relatively flabby, wooly (love that word), and just lacks the "snap" of the G3. Sort of "anti-hifi" to my ears. Would probably be perfect for someone with a different style.

But...the GIII is SO much bulkier than contemporary neodymium cabs! I was hoping the SL210 might be my solution, but it seems not to be.

So it boils down to this...

Are there any 410 or 210 neo cabs out there that approach the hifi/transparent sound and blazing speed of my GIII? Or is that just impossible, based on the physics?

What about the much smaller Goliath Jr III? Never played one, but would consider one if the tone & response were pretty similar to the GIII.

If I added a second SL210, would that just magnify the issues of flabbiness I have, or would the response change?

Thanks for bearing with me in my pursuit for a smaller rig that matches the GIII's performance!

If you want hi-fi sound, consider Barefaced, specifically one of the 12-inch cabinets. They're a frequent topic around Talkbass and are favored for their designs, which optimizes for desired tone quality, loudness, lightness, and compactness all at the same time. My new rig is just a Super Compact Tweeter, 1x12. It's extremely clear, transparent, and has a quick response. The idea is good sound in = good sound out. It's also comfortable with more wattage than any previous cabinet I've owned (including 4x10s). It'll get as loud or as quiet as I need. As a bonus, it's also stupidly light and as big as a practice cab.

The only downsides to it are cost and lead time. But, the way I see it, just one of their cabinets could be your "forever cabinet" that you never let go of, it's actually not a bad deal... and even if you do decide to sell, I doubt you'll find it difficult to sell. Lead time is an issue, though. The most optimistic estimate is over a month and a half, and I waited nearly 3 for mine. But so far it's been worth every second and every penny.

 

[WG Plum]

Not sure, but I *think* Revsound cabs might be something to check out.

 

[misterCRUSH]

Just switched to the Phil Jones Bass 67. Very articulate (snappy) and transparent. Very awesome cab.

 

[micguy]

Terminal velocity?

For higher terminal velocity, you want more mass, and less surface area. This is definitely an area where neo cabs come up short. An old 810 with the heaviest woofers you can load in it is a good bet for a fast cabinet.

"Fast", when you come right down to it, is equivalent to more bandwidth - the faster a transducer gets moving, the more bandwidth it will accurately reproduce. This is an area where something like Phil Jone's multiple small drivers has an edge. Of course, to hear all that bandwidth, you have to be right on axis, or the off axis cancellation from comb filtering will kill things.

Phil Jones' stuff is also quite heavy (the bigger cabs), so it might do well in the terminal velocity department as well.

 

[Arjank]

Terminal velocity?


The unique voicing of the SWR cabinets was desirable to those seeking the more modern sound and they sold a lot of those cabinets. The original PAS 10” drivers were the fundamental aspect of that voicing, but as the power amps got more powerful, their reliability became an issue. Had SWR used an effective HPF, or might have changed that trajectory.

The SWR's have a unique voicing for sure and those looking for that zinggg (including myself!) back then really appreciated what these cabs brought to the table. My sonic taste though has changed, nowadays I strive for midrange clarity. I want the voice / character of the instrument to shine through, a weak midrange doesn't do that (IMHO).
And yes, the SWR's should have used a HPF, the PAS drivers had a limited xmax.

 

[bearhart74]

 

[MaxSpinrun]

Genzler new BA2 series in either 410 or 210

 

[ole Jason]

Barefaced, Genzler, and Phil Jones would all fit the bill. I've been running a Phil Jones C4 + C2 and have been really happy with it. Super quick transparent response without the lows or highs sounding/feeling artificial.

 

[Jefus]

When I think "HiFi" for bass cabs my mind immediately goes to Acme and Bag End, but neither was known for being light.

GR Bass might be a good place to look nowadays. But I doubt anything will have the same voicing as SWR.

 

[Element Zero]

My Mesa Subway 410 is amazeballz and will EASILY decimate anyone who stands in its way… but also sounds excellent at 1:30 am 2 toddlers and wife sleeping 2 rooms over volume too.