- Jan 2, 2006
- 992
- 3,070
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Curt Mangan Strings, & Formerly Wyn Guitars. RIP Randy!!
The real trick is being able to try the options B4 you go down the rabbit hole!!
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Best Tube Pre Amp for Mesa D-800+
- Thread starter Clark W
- Start date
The real trick is being able to try the options B4 you go down the rabbit hole!!
a near impossible task. My local GC doesn't carry any bass pedals. And neither do the local mom and pop shops unless they take something in used.
I use the TT800 with an Ampeg SGT-DI on the Subway channel effect loop and so I have Boogie channel and Ampeg channel and it is fantastic
That doubles the preamps.
Run straight into the pedal and then run the pedal into the return.
Two Notes ReVolt
because it gives you...
If you must have a small pedal, SushiBox Finally Bass edition is coming soon.
because it gives you...
- Three *useful* distinct tube voicings
- An additional effects loop
- An additional DI XLR out
- Additional EQ and Gain Staging options
If you must have a small pedal, SushiBox Finally Bass edition is coming soon.
The best I've tried is the Frenzel Deluxe PreAmp with the HiWatt Voicing and Octal Tube Pre's 6SL7 patched into the FX return. It was 220 when I got it but I think it's almost 400 now. It's not a pedal but a desktop size pre-amp that can sit on top of the 800 or the AI Focus 1000 watt. IT has two channels a Fender (cleaner) and a Marshall ( which has more mids and not as scooped as the Febder input and overdrives faster). I use an active ABY switch for 2 channel switching. I set the preamp's EQ to almost flat (Not at noon) and voice my initial signal using the amps EQ . This is better than EQ stacking in my experience.
The other one's I have are a Demeter VTB, an ART MPA with a Hi-Z input and adjustable impedance and 2 Sushi's PA and Slamp Egg. I've also used the UniValve as a preamp and using the transformer line out. That one can be driven into power tube distortion. Yo can definitely tube roll as it only uses 1 power tube topping at 15 watts for KT and 6505 tubes, but will take 6V6, 6L6, 5881, KT88, KT66, 6505, EL34 and EL-84 with a yellowjacket adaptor
The other one's I have are a Demeter VTB, an ART MPA with a Hi-Z input and adjustable impedance and 2 Sushi's PA and Slamp Egg. I've also used the UniValve as a preamp and using the transformer line out. That one can be driven into power tube distortion. Yo can definitely tube roll as it only uses 1 power tube topping at 15 watts for KT and 6505 tubes, but will take 6V6, 6L6, 5881, KT88, KT66, 6505, EL34 and EL-84 with a yellowjacket adaptor
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Yo might build-up a Sushibox Bass Dude, if you have soldering skills.
Great all-round tube sound, and bassier than the Particle Accelerator (of which I have 2).
Both will give you nice sound and some grit if you push the gain.
D
Nomally I would say: If you don't like the amp, sell it and get an amp you actually like. Sticking a cheap "toob" pedal in front of an amp you don't like is rarely a good solution. Sure, it will color the tone, but whether you will like that coloration is a lottery. At least unless you test it WITH YOUR RIG before buying. Every pedal you add will also add more noise and degrade the signal.
But it seems like you actually love this amp? What exactly is it you think a tube pedal will achieve? And what do you WANT it to achieve? A tiny tube pedal without any transformers/output tubes will never sound like a proper tube amp, if that's what you want?
If you simply want dirt, MAYBE a tube pre will give you the type of dirt you want, or maybe another kind of dirt pedal will get you closer.
Others have suggested modelling preamps. While some of these may actually sound (but not really "feel") closer to a real tube amp than most "toob" preamp pedals, I honestly don't see the point if you already love the tone of your Mesa. Most modelling pedals aim for an Ampeg(ish) tone. If that's what you want you will probably be better off selling the Mesa and buy an Ampeg instead.
My point is: Unless you have specific goals you will most likely end up adding more noise/signal degradation just to color the tone in a way that you may or may not like. You've already got a good preamp in your Mesa. Do you think a cheap "toob" pedal will be better? Maybe, but not very likely IMO.
If you end up buying a tube preamp anyway, I would at least run the external preamp into the effects loop to bypass the preamp in your Mesa. Running preamps into preamps is often a recipe for poor tone IMO.
And if whatever pedal you consider buying has a cab/speaker sim (like many preamp pedals do): Don't use a cabsim into a real amp+cab unless you REALLY want to ruin your tone.
But it seems like you actually love this amp? What exactly is it you think a tube pedal will achieve? And what do you WANT it to achieve? A tiny tube pedal without any transformers/output tubes will never sound like a proper tube amp, if that's what you want?
If you simply want dirt, MAYBE a tube pre will give you the type of dirt you want, or maybe another kind of dirt pedal will get you closer.
Others have suggested modelling preamps. While some of these may actually sound (but not really "feel") closer to a real tube amp than most "toob" preamp pedals, I honestly don't see the point if you already love the tone of your Mesa. Most modelling pedals aim for an Ampeg(ish) tone. If that's what you want you will probably be better off selling the Mesa and buy an Ampeg instead.
My point is: Unless you have specific goals you will most likely end up adding more noise/signal degradation just to color the tone in a way that you may or may not like. You've already got a good preamp in your Mesa. Do you think a cheap "toob" pedal will be better? Maybe, but not very likely IMO.
If you end up buying a tube preamp anyway, I would at least run the external preamp into the effects loop to bypass the preamp in your Mesa. Running preamps into preamps is often a recipe for poor tone IMO.
And if whatever pedal you consider buying has a cab/speaker sim (like many preamp pedals do): Don't use a cabsim into a real amp+cab unless you REALLY want to ruin your tone.
Whatever you end up getting, try both running it into the front of the amp and into the return and see which you like best yourself. Stacking preamps can be great fun and can lead to very beefy tones. I have two pre's on my board (one as a boost and one as a tone shaper) and run them into the front of my TT800 and couldn't be happier with how much of an impact it has on my tone. Let your ear lead you and have fun!
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Same, I do that with a Sansamp clone and my old Acoustic Combo. I get such a nice, thick drive tone out of it
Not shooting for a tube amp sound, I'd just buy a used Mesa 400+ if that was what I was going for. Although I would love to own one.
This is what I'm going for, a little more warmth, a little more dirt. I use a MXR 85 Bass Distortion pedal, but...
I use it very sparingly, it's great for just a hair of dirt, but if you try to add more it starts to sound too synthy to me.
Yep, modelling amps aren't even on the radar for me.
While I agree with almost everything you have said, stacking preamps is nothing new, it can work, or not work. If I were to install a John East preamp into one of my passive bases and make it an active bass, am I not stacking a preamp in front of my amp's preamp? So right off the bat, active bass players are already stacking preamps without ever adding a preamp pedal to their signal chain. And because of that, I suspect is why some active basses don't work well with some amps.
And then there's the Hartke HA3500C / HA5500C amps. They came with two preamps, a single tube, and a solid state preamp that you could run either solo, or mix them, in essence, stacking the tube preamp ahead of the solid state preamp. Matter of fact, that was my favorite attribute on that amp when I owned one(HA3500C). A great example of if it ain't broke, we'll just discontinue it.
But yes, stacking preamps in front of preamps can be a crapshoot. And it seems like to me, that the more options a pedal preamp has, the more complicated and crappy things can get when stacking them in front of an amp's preamp.
With all of that said, I've ordered a Sushibox More, it consists of two tubes, and a volume knob, cause sometimes simpler is better. It's designed to add to, not replace your amp's tone. And one of the things I love about the D-800+ is the tone, the voicing, the HPF, and the gain sections. The D-800+ is really simplistic in a lot of ways too which is the best thing about it, it just works.
I'm hoping that the Sushibox More's simplicity will compliment that and give me a little more warmth, a little bit of a tube feel, and a little more dirt. Guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks. Nathan Slade from Sushibox emailed me late last night and said he had some on the bench for assembly as we speak and that they should be available in about a week. So I just paid for and ordered one about 10 minutes ago. If I don't like it with the Mesa head, I also have a GK Goldline 500 that has a clean channel and a dirt channel. I never use the dirt channel on it, too noisy for my tastes. We'll see how it works on that amp on the clean channel.
And if I don't like it with either amp, then I guess I'll sell it for a small loss and move on. There's just no way for me to try out pedals without just biting the bullet and buying them. My local GC carries a lot of guitar pedals, but rarely a bass pedal, and when they do it's something common like a Sansamp BDDI. The mom and pop shops, again, a lot of guitar pedals, rarely a bass pedal of any kind, and when they do, it's whatever someone has sold them or traded in.
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- Jan 2, 2006
- 992
- 3,070
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Curt Mangan Strings, & Formerly Wyn Guitars. RIP Randy!!
Exactly... Or try your bass directly into the D800 + but use the preamp out into the +'s, return and the preamp instrument input into the D800 + tuner input. This will cancel out the preamp of the 800 + and you'll just be using the tube preamp of your pedal!!! With all the gain & volume of the 800+!!! BTW I didn't come up with this. On the Mesa TT OMG thread @agedhorse suggested this and I've used it on my TT, WD & 800+ and it works wonderfully!! On the TT, because you have two separate channels, you can use whatever preamp and plug into the return of either the Boogie Channel or the Subway Channel & switch between them!!!
- Jan 2, 2006
- 992
- 3,070
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Curt Mangan Strings, & Formerly Wyn Guitars. RIP Randy!!
Well another move is if you have some Bass bros/sisters that actually have some of those preamps who may allow you to test them!! I'm lucky enough to have a few local fellow bass players that that have numerous preamps and also Mesa Boogie heads that I've been able to try and test. Which is why I ended up with a WD, an 800+ and a TT!!! Obviously a blessing and a luxury. There's another thread on TB by @scubaduba who has tested like hundreds of preamps, pedals & compressors! But I think you'll like sushi box..
I think I'll like the Sushi box too. I have two amps to work with, the D-800+ and a GK Goldline 500. Heck, even have a GK MB210-II combo, but it doesn't have an fx loop. And I'll end up with a TT 800 before it's over with.
