Beta tester wanted for lightweight 2x12

[DukeLeJeune]

Trevorus, I very seriously doubt my lightweight 2x12 could compete with a full-sized Berg (assuming that's what the HT212 is... I couldn't find it on their website). Unless the competition is which one you can run faster with! JimmyM, the beanspiller, will be beta testing a more normal-sized 2x12 + mid that's probably what I'd throw in the ring against the Berg.

You've got me curious now. Can you tell me more about the HT212?

 

[fast slapper]

KJung.

Seems qualified enough.

 

[ashtray]

I would offer my services, but I haven't ever found a neo loaded 2x12 that I liked... and it's not for a lack of looking!

 

[bobunit]

I didn't realize Idaho was so big (I'm a transplant from Louisiana).

It's not that big. Look forward to reading the results of the testing.

 

[rokkitt]

I have limited experience, but maybe someone from that perspective would be refreshing.

I have a genz benz 112, older model, not neo.

Also, I own a goliath III 4x10 by SWR, pre-Fender.

Most likely not what you are looking for, but keep me in mind!

(I do own a GB Shuttle 6.0, and will have a neo cab when the GAS fund grows a little more)

Thank you for your possible consideration. My zip code is 10468, for shipping purposes...

*fingers crossed*

Allen

 

[Trevorus]

Trevorus, I very seriously doubt my lightweight 2x12 could compete with a full-sized Berg (assuming that's what the HT212 is... I couldn't find it on their website). Unless the competition is which one you can run faster with! JimmyM, the beanspiller, will be beta testing a more normal-sized 2x12 + mid that's probably what I'd throw in the ring against the Berg.

You've got me curious now. Can you tell me more about the HT212?

You sure are right about that lead-sled of a cab. It's heavy, but dang is it worth it! I used to have an Aggie 212, and I liked it, but the Berg just did what I wanted just that much better. It kept my lows from sounding loose, especially with a low B on my Reverend. It's a fantastic rock tone, and the tweeter is generally smoother sounding than what I see in a lot of tweeters. I always hated how most tweeters brought out the hiss from my amps, and furthermore the little bits of squeak. I'm into a bit more rounded and low-mid growl sound. With my setup, (a GK 1001RB-II), it's very well matched. The Berg is built to handle some power, so putting the volume up to bone crushing levels doesn't leave you wary of over-taxing the drivers. I wouldn't dime an amp into it, mainly because if you need to do that, you're using the wrong amp, or you need more speakers.

To bring it more into perspective, my lightweight rig is a GK 400RB-III, into a Harry Kolbe 112. It came with an Electro-Voice EVM12L, which is a massively heavy 12, but it had some surround damage, so it couldn't handle too much thump without risk of furthering the damage. It's shelved until I can find a re-surround kit. So, for now it's a Carvin 12 for PA/Bass use, which I had sitting around from an old amp around the house. I play at church, so it's definitely powerful enough for stage volume and then some, but the thing I have to look for is good representation along the sound spectrum at lower levels, and the Carvin 12 is moderately ok at that. The EV was better, until it started tearing the surround.

I suppose that gives you a little perspective into what I do sound-wise.

 

[JimmyM]

It's not that big.

It's big enough where I didn't even bother to let Duke know I was in Sandpoint in May. Probably should have but it looks like he's a good 6-7 hours away from Sandpoint.

 

[unclekebm]

It's big enough where I didn't even bother to let Duke know I was in Sandpoint in May. Probably should have but it looks like he's a good 6-7 hours away from Sandpoint.

hey Jimmy,
did you play in Sandpoint?
I've played at Eichardts through the years, small but cool, and great people!

sorry for the derail

 

[JimmyM]

hey Jimmy,
did you play in Sandpoint?
I've played at Eichardts through the years, small but cool, and great people!

Ya, my regular band does the oldies show every May.

 

[rcarraher]

I'm looking for a beta tester for a 2x12 cab. I'd like to find someone who has a fair amount of experience with relatively lightweight cabs, so they can give me an idea of how my design compares with the sort of cabs I aspire to compete with [cough cough Schroeder cough].

One request I'll make is that the beta-tester keep a certain aspect of my design confidential until I've decided to "go public".

Of course I'll cover all shipping expenses.

Well, when I gig, I use mostly an Ampeg 8X10, so light weight leaves me out.....

 

[rcarraher]

Ya, my regular band does the oldies show every May.

Apopka, I've got horses from Apopka!

 

[JimmyM]

Apopka, I've got horses from Apopka!

Really? I thought Ocala was the horse city. Never even knew Apopka had anything for horses.

 

[dannster]

I wish I'd seen this thread sooner. I've been playing 212's for quite a few years and have had several pass through here.

Looking forward to seeing it regardless!

 

[Derek Kiernan]

This should be exciting! I can't wait to see the reviews.

 

[KJung]

Trevorus, I very seriously doubt my lightweight 2x12 could compete with a full-sized Berg (assuming that's what the HT212 is... I couldn't find it on their website). Unless the competition is which one you can run faster with! JimmyM, the beanspiller, will be beta testing a more normal-sized 2x12 + mid that's probably what I'd throw in the ring against the Berg.

You've got me curious now. Can you tell me more about the HT212?

Good luck with your cabs. I'll look forward to reading some reviews!

That early HT series from Berg was interesting. The HT210, HT322, HT210s/HT122s stack, HT212, etc., were big, heavy horses, and IMO took a unique design approach. The woofers were those hi xmax type of drivers (or at least they sounded as such, and you could really see the pistoning in there but they took massive low end without breaking up), and the cabs were tuned very low... lot's of deep low end to my ear. As you know, whenever you spec a woofer to go that low, and put it in a big box tuned low, the upper mid response pretty much disappears from the driver. Andy at Acme deals with this by adding a little mid driver to 'plug that hole' between the top end of the woofer and the tweeter. Jim took a different approach and used a big honking PA type horn tweeter that seemed to be crossed over very low to 'plug that upper mid hole'

The result was 'interesting'... deep bass, relatively polite mid mids (these cabs were more big and smooth than 'punchy), and an unusual top end response that had upper mids/lower treble and upper treble coming out of that big horn. That gave these cabs a very, for lack of a better term, 'hi fi' tone... deep bass, polite lower mids and mid mids, and a very, very clean, crisp top end.

I liked these cabs way more in the basement than on the gig myself. Pure IMO there, and FYI from my perspective.

 

[tombowlus]

Bah, Tom gets to test everything. Just this once, let's not let Tom get something

Aw, man, why all the hate?

 

[tombowlus]

Good luck with your cabs. I'll look forward to reading some reviews!

That early HT series from Berg was interesting. The HT210, HT322, HT210s/HT122s stack, HT212, etc., were big, heavy horses, and IMO took a unique design approach. The woofers were those hi xmax type of drivers (or at least they sounded as such, and you could really see the pistoning in there but they took massive low end without breaking up), and the cabs were tuned very low... lot's of deep low end to my ear. As you know, whenever you spec a woofer to go that low, and put it in a big box tuned low, the upper mid response pretty much disappears from the driver. Andy at Acme deals with this by adding a little mid driver to 'plug that hole' between the top end of the woofer and the tweeter. Jim took a different approach and used a big honking PA type horn tweeter that seemed to be crossed over very low to 'plug that upper mid hole'

The result was 'interesting'... deep bass, relatively polite mid mids (these cabs were more big and smooth than 'punchy), and an unusual top end response that had upper mids/lower treble and upper treble coming out of that big horn. That gave these cabs a very, for lack of a better term, 'hi fi' tone... deep bass, polite lower mids and mid mids, and a very, very clean, crisp top end.

I liked these cabs way more in the basement than on the gig myself. Pure IMO there, and FYI from my perspective.

FWIW, the HT212 does not seem to be as low-end focused as the HT322 and some of Jim's other similar sized cabs. It has a very strong, punchy, balanced attack through the mids. I personally wouldn't call that particular cab a "high xmax design," though to be honest I do not know the specs on those particular 12" drivers. It just strikes me as a design that is a bit more mid-focused (but still with decent extension down low).

 

[KJung]

FWIW, the HT212 does not seem to be as low-end focused as the HT322 and some of Jim's other similar sized cabs. It has a very strong, punchy, balanced attack through the mids. I personally wouldn't call that particular cab a "high xmax design," though to be honest I do not know the specs on those particular 12" drivers. It just strikes me as a design that is a bit more mid-focused (but still with decent extension down low).

+1 The HT322 was an 'extreme' execution of what I was describing. I would still put the HT212 in that same tone bucket though, and while more balanced than the HT322, I still put it in the 'wide/deep/polite' tonal universe. Whether that's due to the driver design or just the tuning is over my head, although the pistoning those drivers do while still never breaking up or compressing suggests that they are pretty heavy duty and have higher excursion (and hence less mid response) than the 'typical' bass driver design used in many other cabs. Just guess there, of course.

 

[tombowlus]

+1 The HT322 was an 'extreme' execution of what I was describing. I would still put the HT212 in that same tone bucket though, and while more balanced than the HT322, I still put it in the 'wide/deep/polite' tonal universe. Whether that's due to the driver design or just the tuning is over my head, although the pistoning those drivers do while still never breaking up or compressing suggests that they are pretty heavy duty and have higher excursion (and hence less mid response) than the 'typical' bass driver design used in many other cabs. Just guess there, of course.

IME, those 12's did not exhibit as much cone excursion as Jim's 10's of the same era cabs. There were not all that many HT212's made, which is a bit of a shame, as that is one of my favorite Berg cabs.

 

[KJung]

IME, those 12's did not exhibit as much cone excursion as Jim's 10's of the same era cabs. There were not all that many HT212's made, which is a bit of a shame, as that is one of my favorite Berg cabs.

I agree. Those 10's used in the HT210 looked like they were going to come out of the front of the box That was not a good thing IMO, and I agree the HT212 was not that extreme.