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Better by listening...
- Thread starter gai113
- Start date
Short answer: Yes!... At least it will improve your ability to make up your own things. Getting inspired, and discovering new grooves and ways to play your instrument.
Listening will give you something to wish for when you play. Developing the other music skills will take you closer to playing what is in your head.
I have just been doing this for the past like two/three weeks. I've just been listening to an album or two a day without doing anything else but listening.
I'm pretty sure I'm noticing pretty big improvements in ear wise, Which is translating over to my playing. I listen to myself more. Plus it becomes a sort of mediation. Just focusing on music and nothing else really chills one out.
I'm pretty sure I'm noticing pretty big improvements in ear wise, Which is translating over to my playing. I listen to myself more. Plus it becomes a sort of mediation. Just focusing on music and nothing else really chills one out.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,737
- 8,953
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Short answer: No!
Sort of. There's no learning through osmosis, there's no learning without some hard work. Just like you're never going to learn to write poetry in Farsi just by listening to recordings of people speaking Farsi - devoid of any other clue as to what meaning and intent is attached to any of those sounds.
Sure, you need to hear how language sounds, but meaning has to attach itself somehow. As children we learn our native language by constant repetition of concrete examples, but as we age we have the ability to stretch our vocbulary and understanding conceptually.
So to do that with music, you need to put in some concrete work and that's ear training. Hearing, identifying and singing intervals in the first octave, intervals in the second octave (tensions), triads in open and closed position and all inversions, 4 parts open and closed in all inversions, 4 parts w/ 1 tension, 4 parts w/2 tensions. Understanding what you're hearing, that's theory. How do chords function etc.
TRANSCRIPTION - I know most folks talk about transcription as 1. ear training and 2. data mining for vocabulary. I disagree. Guys who play roundball don't just practice by playing games. There's a LOT of making left handed jump shots from outside the key, moving over a foot and doing the same thing. Sure in the game you USE all of that, but in practice, you break it down to smaller chunks and actually WORK on, for example, hearing and singing a minor 7 flat 5 chord in all inversions. So that when you hear it in a solo or line you're transcribing or hear it on the stand when you're playing you don't have to guess or think or stop and tear it apart, it's just like a STOP sign. You' don't have to determine that it's hexagon out of all possible shapes, that it's red out of all possible colors and you don't have to read and define the word that's written on it.
So there's a response to one of these ear training threads around here that I go over my teacher's methodology, it's done wonders for my playing, check it out.
As I said, most folks talk about transcribing as a way to datamine for vocabulary or ideas to play over the same or similar changes. Pretty much when they transcribe, all they're really interested in doing is getting pitches on paper (or pitches/phrases under their fingers). But the approach that my teacher takes (which is coming through the Tristano school) is that transcription is a method in which you can start practicing the fundamentals of improvisational approach, that is to say, you are to all intents and purposes doing the same thing that you do when you improvise. There are a number of threads where I outline this approach as well, the short version is that you start with the solo or line at half speed, learn to sing it with ALL the nuances, take it to full speed and sing it with ALL the nuances (phrasing, slurs, staccato, legato, ghost notes, dynamics etc etc) and THEN you pick up your instrument and just play what you are singing. and that's what you do when you improvise - you have a line in your head, in your "internal" ear that you hear with enough clarity that you play it on your instrument.
Sort of. There's no learning through osmosis, there's no learning without some hard work. Just like you're never going to learn to write poetry in Farsi just by listening to recordings of people speaking Farsi - devoid of any other clue as to what meaning and intent is attached to any of those sounds.
Sure, you need to hear how language sounds, but meaning has to attach itself somehow. As children we learn our native language by constant repetition of concrete examples, but as we age we have the ability to stretch our vocbulary and understanding conceptually.
So to do that with music, you need to put in some concrete work and that's ear training. Hearing, identifying and singing intervals in the first octave, intervals in the second octave (tensions), triads in open and closed position and all inversions, 4 parts open and closed in all inversions, 4 parts w/ 1 tension, 4 parts w/2 tensions. Understanding what you're hearing, that's theory. How do chords function etc.
TRANSCRIPTION - I know most folks talk about transcription as 1. ear training and 2. data mining for vocabulary. I disagree. Guys who play roundball don't just practice by playing games. There's a LOT of making left handed jump shots from outside the key, moving over a foot and doing the same thing. Sure in the game you USE all of that, but in practice, you break it down to smaller chunks and actually WORK on, for example, hearing and singing a minor 7 flat 5 chord in all inversions. So that when you hear it in a solo or line you're transcribing or hear it on the stand when you're playing you don't have to guess or think or stop and tear it apart, it's just like a STOP sign. You' don't have to determine that it's hexagon out of all possible shapes, that it's red out of all possible colors and you don't have to read and define the word that's written on it.
So there's a response to one of these ear training threads around here that I go over my teacher's methodology, it's done wonders for my playing, check it out.
As I said, most folks talk about transcribing as a way to datamine for vocabulary or ideas to play over the same or similar changes. Pretty much when they transcribe, all they're really interested in doing is getting pitches on paper (or pitches/phrases under their fingers). But the approach that my teacher takes (which is coming through the Tristano school) is that transcription is a method in which you can start practicing the fundamentals of improvisational approach, that is to say, you are to all intents and purposes doing the same thing that you do when you improvise. There are a number of threads where I outline this approach as well, the short version is that you start with the solo or line at half speed, learn to sing it with ALL the nuances, take it to full speed and sing it with ALL the nuances (phrasing, slurs, staccato, legato, ghost notes, dynamics etc etc) and THEN you pick up your instrument and just play what you are singing. and that's what you do when you improvise - you have a line in your head, in your "internal" ear that you hear with enough clarity that you play it on your instrument.
Listening is a very useful aspect in developing musical skills. I find transcribing (actually distilling what you hear into notes and bars) helps you see music. Music puts order to cacophony sometimes using cacophony as a musical device. Transcribing music can literally show you the patterns and other cleverness that may or may not be readily apparent when you listen.
Having visual patterns and a more mathematical or logical understanding of why music is what it is provides you one more way to conceptualize and create it.
Will it "make you better" ? - It won't make you worse.
Having visual patterns and a more mathematical or logical understanding of why music is what it is provides you one more way to conceptualize and create it.
Will it "make you better" ? - It won't make you worse.
listening and noticing are important. i see many cover bands where the bassist is not playing the correct part . listening to the bass through all the guitars and singing is good practice for the ears. your ears will learn to ignore the other junk.
That would be true if the question was learning by listening alone. I didn't presume that was the case as that would be leaning to the absurd.
And sure enough you do get better at both writing poetry and learning the language farsi at listening to a cd with farsi poetry, if you presume that you are starting to learn the language in other ways before you start listening. In fact even haven listened to a cd with the farsi language before you start to take lessons in farsi would make you better prepared as you might all ready have picked up the sound of it as well as some pronunciations.
So short answer is rather: Yes! ... Just as I claimed earlier.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,737
- 8,953
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,737
- 8,953
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Anyway, Cire, you can get to what I sound like either at the reverbnation page (visit Ed Fuqua's website) or at the Talkbass Soundcloud (or at cdbaby - I'm on recordings by Jon Raney, Charlie Krachey, Burt Eckoff and two by Jeff Silverbush), you can get to what NN sounds like at myspace (visit NOISE NINJA'S website) and decide for yourself whose advice makes more sense for the direction you want to pursue.
This wasnt really supposed to be a debate or anything... Alot of things people argue about on talk bass are purely subjective and most if it is because of "ego"...
I'd like to thank everyone for their input and thoughts..
Honestly i think listening is one of the most important parts of music. I believe creativity really comes from listening to lots of music....
Right now i listen more than i play and its benefiting a whole bunch...
Personally i can listen to music and picture the fret board in my head and imagine the notes that are being played and intervals... which is kinda cool... I can actually play my bass in my head without even physically playing it...(not sure if that make sense)
But thats really besides the point...
I was merely trying see what people have experienced and thought about this.... Everything everyone has said makes sense to me.. I believe in utilizing all the things avaiable to make me a better musician (theory,transcribing, singing etc,etc ad infintinum)
Good stuff guys
I'd like to thank everyone for their input and thoughts..
Honestly i think listening is one of the most important parts of music. I believe creativity really comes from listening to lots of music....
Right now i listen more than i play and its benefiting a whole bunch...
Personally i can listen to music and picture the fret board in my head and imagine the notes that are being played and intervals... which is kinda cool... I can actually play my bass in my head without even physically playing it...(not sure if that make sense)
But thats really besides the point...
I was merely trying see what people have experienced and thought about this.... Everything everyone has said makes sense to me.. I believe in utilizing all the things avaiable to make me a better musician (theory,transcribing, singing etc,etc ad infintinum)
Good stuff guys
Ear training. Really important. Hearing intervals. Really important.
Substituting ear development for written transcription and standard notation, not a good trade.
Do both.
Substituting ear development for written transcription and standard notation, not a good trade.
Do both.
i pretty much do everything except read music... I know its dumb and i would benefit from it... but i guess im lazy and dont really care... I dont have the patience to learn how to read 
.... I can read chord charts..
but honestly i would rather learn a solo by ear than read it on notation..
I also play just for fun.. So i dont take myself too seriously lol but i agree
.... I can read chord charts..but honestly i would rather learn a solo by ear than read it on notation..
I also play just for fun.. So i dont take myself too seriously lol but i agree
Listening to a lot of music and learning how to distill all the elements, instruments, textures, etc. and hearing how they work together in different contexts is a good thing, especially combined with a bit of basic education in music appreciation, audio production, music theory, and music composition. I think the amount of benefit a person can get from it will differ from person to person. It depends on what one is trying to achieve, and what one's strengths and weaknesses are.
Anyway, it definitely can't hurt... Some great music has been made by people who don't transcribe...
Anyway, it definitely can't hurt... Some great music has been made by people who don't transcribe...
I say potato you say pátató, either way it's f***** spelled potato...... Looks like someone takes common reasoning personally Ed. This wasn't meant to be a shootout. But to be fair you should really try to listening to more than 1 number don't you think. Also try to listen to Are We Enemies | Menfolk (bass) and Janosch (bass and guitar) , as well as ...and for such a long time. Warning: shameless self promotion content.
Yes it will make you better. Listening will help you learn song structure and anticipate changes.
