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Double Bass better tone tranferring bridge wood

#21
Mr.Phil said:
Not questioning, but do you arrive at the figure of 13% louder?
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You can quesiton away...I don't mind :) My husband approached this from an objective, engineering stance verse a subjective, ear/personal opinion stance without wanting to changing the visual appearance of the bass. The bass was pushing 76 decibels at five feet on the sound meter before with a solid bridge and stock Kay tail piece. With the bridge and tail piece modifications I can get 86 decibels at five feet in a controlled environment.

I can’t say if it is the bass, the bridge or the tail piece or all three…but I can say the volume of this bass did increase after the modifications.

This bass has become a jam favorite as well. When I don't bring it to the jams the old timers say...hey...where's that good Kay bass. :cool:
 
#25
Okay, we are open to learning…define conventional way? :help:

In the Traeger’s book, page 92 bulleted paragraph 51 its says…now is the time for the fancy knife work…and goes on to say…You will be doing what’s called your “personal trademark work”. To this end we finish a bridge to our visual liking.

We were inspired by James unconventional tail piece and bridge work on his personal bass. :) We are open to learning both traditional and new methods. I’m all eyes. :D
 
#27
MollyKay said:
You can quesiton away...I don't mind :) My husband approached this from an objective, engineering stance verse a subjective, ear/personal opinion stance without wanting to changing the visual appearance of the bass. The bass was pushing 76 decibels at five feet on the sound meter before with a solid bridge and stock Kay tail piece. With the bridge and tail piece modifications I can get 86 decibels at five feet in a controlled environment.
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If I'm not mistaken, a 10 decibel increase in sound level is considered a doubling of perceived loudness. Thus, 86 Db is twice as loud as 76 db


bob
 
#31
arnoldschnitzer said:
That's a new one for me...:eyebrow:
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Same principle as hollowing out the bridge - reduction of mass in the transmission of vibrations. Reducing the mass of the bridge transmits more vibrations to the top. Placing the sound post closer to the foot removes the mass of the top and diffusion of sound waves through the top so more vibration is transmitted to the back of the instrument. This also gives a very harsh tone and it not particularly desirable in most instances, however I have set up one instrument for playing solo outside, un-amplified. It is not a pleasant sound, but it projects like there is no tomorrow.

Look it up.
 
#33
Matthew Tucker said:
Well, it looks like instead of removing wood from the bottom of the feet, you have re-shaped the "ankles" to thin the "toes". This gives you thick ankles, a higher arch and less wood above the heart.
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Thanks Matthew for replying…we appreciate the exchange of information TB allows from experienced luthiers and feel we have more to learn as self taught hobbyist. If I re-trace how Lonnie’s cuts a bridge he does leave the legs of the bridge as long as possible. The feet are shaped to the top plate of the bass then he shapes the top (cap) of the bridge to echo the shape of the fingerboard. He sets the string spacing grooves with rat tail files and then details the bridge by shaping and sanding. The legs are left as long as possible by sanding down the feet of the bridge. The photo on the left was the 1953 Kay but we do have some Epiphone basses that have a really low overstand which does not for much wood to remain above the heart. Thanks for the explanation. :)

davidAaronCarte said:
Close
Every 3dB is double perceived volume
Which would mean its about 8 times louder
And that's... well, massive
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Maybe I am reading the sound meter wrong…the bass is louder but not eight times louder…we would be blowing out the windows or at least drowning out the banjo player. :rolleyes:

carl h. said:
It is not a pleasant sound, but it projects like there is no tomorrow.
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This is difficult to answer because sound is so subjective and I would use all the non-approved adjectives to describe the sound. It is louder but still warm and mellow not harsh at all. It has Dominant solo strings tuned down so it plays very easy with the warm gut thump that projects well in an all acoustic jam…just so we are all on the same page…we play bluegrass and all pizz. ;)
 

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#34
OK, looking at the left hand picture, if he took another 2-3 mm from the bottom of the feet before shaping them to fit the top, he wouldn't have to reshape the ankles anywhere near as much. That Despiau bridge shape is a more squat shape than some other bridge shapes; if you like taller legs there are blanks you can buy that start out that way.

Also in that pic - and it might just be the angle he's holding it - but it LOOKS as if the vertical face of the bridge is towards the fingerboard, and the sloping face is facing downwards. The conventional way is the other way around. You probably knew that but I point it out just in case ...
 
#35
The instrument I jacked the soundpost on with the non traditional setting was a violin and it was for a specific event. I haven't changed it back since (this was about 6 years ago) because I rather like it's disturbing sound quality. I also raised the string height (new bridge, not wedges or other nonsense) to allow maximum amplitude of the strings. It is a handful to play, and I would never play it in a section, but for outside and solo it is effective.

Lately I have been going through dozens of rental instruments in various states of ???***??? Bridges backwards, sanded flat on both sides, string slots 1/8 inch under the top of the bridge, off to one side, too far up too far down...

Generally the traditional placement of things really is the optimal for most playing conditions. However, I'd suspect more radical setups might still be tonally acceptable on instruments that will not be bowed. There are a couple basses in the shop I may do some experimenting with on sound post placement for optimal volume when a bow will not be a factor in the final sound.

(The sig is from Sam Clemens)
 
#36
carl h. said:
Same principle as hollowing out the bridge - reduction of mass in the transmission of vibrations. Reducing the mass of the bridge transmits more vibrations to the top. Placing the sound post closer to the foot removes the mass of the top and diffusion of sound waves through the top so more vibration is transmitted to the back of the instrument. This also gives a very harsh tone and it not particularly desirable in most instances, however I have set up one instrument for playing solo outside, un-amplified. It is not a pleasant sound, but it projects like there is no tomorrow.

Look it up.
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Where will I do so? I'm certainly open to learning new things about the double bass, even after setting, oh, a few thousand soundposts...
 
#38
arnoldschnitzer said:
Where will I do so? I'm certainly open to learning new things about the double bass, even after setting, oh, a few thousand soundposts...
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Quick google results:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_post - consistent with my experience

Link Removed - opposite of my experiences and what I have learned from apprenticeship and conversations with others.

You'd think David's experience would trump some internet nonsense from non industry folk and unknown sources, but I go with what I have observed over the last 20 years.
 
#39
Well that covers everything, doesn't it? Wiki who would have thought.

Arnold I hope you learned something new there, could be useful if you every want a career as a luthier. You might want to Troll through some TB threads on the subject, too, you can learn a lot on Talkbass you know.

Gotta love Carl's sig. Sums it all up really.:eyebrow:
 

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