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Bi-amp

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by pfactor2, Jan 21, 2012.


  1. pfactor2

    pfactor2

    Jun 18, 2008
    Any suggestion on bi-amp use. I have a Peavey Mark IV late 70's . It still delivers and has bi-amp capibility with built in crossover. I just last week bought used a Hartke HA5500 with 1-410 and 1-115 cabinet. Would it make any sense to bi-amp on the larger/outdoor venues. I have never used this feature on the peavey, but i assume i would crossover from the peavey to the hartke to deliver only the mid to highs for the 410 cabinet, or maybe wasting my time?
     
  2. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    That's lopsided cab setup for biamping, it would actually make more sense to run the 15 on the highside and the 410 on the lows although still, they're still both full range cabs and not optimal for biamping. Being able to control the volume of the 15 separately from the 410 will allow you to get more total volume out of the stack, otherwise the 15 will be getting destroyed while the 410 may have more to give.

    Much discussion lately of the drawbacks of the 15+410 stack, search some up and do some reading.
     
  3. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    That. You'd gain nothing bi-amping those cabs. Run them both full range, use the dual power amps to separately adjust their volumes.
     
  4. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    Just don't try to get the 15 as loud as the 4x10. It can't keep up! Safest way would be the stack the 15 on the top so you can hear any cries of pain from the 15.
     
  5. pfactor2

    pfactor2

    Jun 18, 2008
    Actually, there is a noticeable difference when you unplug the 15. Rather have the 10s close, always more clarity in that range.
     
  6. RickenBoogie

    RickenBoogie

    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    :rollno: 3 of the most knowledgable members have responded factually, you'd do well to heed their advice.
     
  7. pfactor2

    pfactor2

    Jun 18, 2008
    Absolutely , the best advise was the stereo amplification , otherwise it's a matter of experience/ trail and error.and I've done plenty of that in 40 years,
     
  8. dlargent

    dlargent

    Aug 7, 2003
    Carrboro, NC
    I used to have a GK 800RB. Ran a cheap 212 cabinet for the high end, and a peavey 15 for the lows. It sounded great, and it was fun to switch between full range and bi-amped. Sounded completely different- full range was more SVT sounding, and bi-amped was more hi-fi.

    Of course, those were the pre-internet days, so there was nobody to tell me that I was imagining things, and no experts telling me that I was doing the completely wrong thing. We just tried stuff and enjoyed it!
     
  9. pfactor2

    pfactor2

    Jun 18, 2008
    Ditto
     
  10. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    No one said it won't work. But a cab made for full range operation is at least four times the size of one made for midrange and high frequency use only. If you're going to bi-amp you should get the right tool for the job. You can drive an 18ga brad with a three pound sledge if you want to, but you don't have to be a civil engineer to realize that a four ounce finish hammer is the more logical choice.
     
  11. evilt70

    evilt70

    Feb 6, 2011
    Pekin, Il
    My rig is straight, thankyouverymuch...........
     
  12. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    On the bottom the 15s contribution will be overwhelmed by the 4x10s. You won't be able to hear it overloading. On the top you will and be able to do something about it. It's got nothing to do with clarity.
     
  13. f64

    f64

    Oct 31, 2009
    I have degrees in engineering and physics and I continue to find it odd that engineers tell us things won't work when physics says it should. Now I do understand the inferiorities of some manufacturersÂ’ designs and the variables brought on by manufacturing techniques but hard and fast statements are wrong. Until each combination is tested and measured the answer is unknown. You also need to understand the target - is there PA support? is it open sound at 30' or 100 yds? crossovers involved?
    Many of you are expert based on schooling or real life work, or both. Please don't make generalized statements. Yes, I agree that there are reasons to persuade new players in one direction or another for simplicity's sake, but every time a question like this comes up I die a little when answers are given without asking more questions.
     
  14. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Not as odd as I do when people say that 'engineers tell us things won't work' when no one has said any such thing. I guess some people just insist on only seeing what they want to see.
     
  15. GrowlerBox

    GrowlerBox

    Feb 10, 2010
    Nude Zealand
    I've just been reading Richard Dawkins' essay on the discontinuous mind in the Christmas edition of the New Statesman. Worth a look.

    Every time one of these threads comes up, someone chimes in with "the engineers tell us it won't work, but I've been doing it for 40 years." Learn to read. The engineers tell you, "obviously it works, but it can be done more efficiently, with less risk of damage, often more cheaply, with less weight, etc." They also tell you that certain setups (e.g. mixed full-range speakers) behave unpredictably, which can also work in your favour, but you won't know before you've tried it, and importantly, before you've compared it against some other way of doing it.

    Relatively few people have genuinely done that and come up with unconventional rigs that work really well, a far greater number kid themselves that they've done it, some of these have been lucky and many have not, and some know how to take the advice given, weigh it up against their personal circumstances (availability of gear, financial considerations, unusual requirements, etc) and make an informed decision.
     
  16. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    I run the same amp, but with 212's on the low side and a 6 on the high. It's amazing how good it works when you use a driver that was actually designed for running mids/highs. Sounds good all over the room, all across the stage, off beside the rig, backed up into it, everywhere.
     
  17. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Obviously you know what the intent of bi-amping is. You use it to prevent damaging low frequencies from going to a cab that can't handle them, such as an eight or six, or a tweeter for that matter. It accomplishes exactly the same task as a passive crossover, but by splitting the frequencies before they go through power amps it's a far more effective method.
    What you don't use bi-amping for is protecting a 4x10 from damaging low frequencies, because they don't need protecting, especially since they're capable of just as low a response and more output than a 1x15. In a 1x15/4x10 what needs protecting is the 1x15; you do that with separate power amps that allow you to run the 1x15 at a lower level than the 4x10. And if that seems like a pretty odd situation, it is, and points out the basic flaw of pairing a 1x15/4x10 in the first place.

    Now those of you who did pay attention in your science classes but slept through English Comprehension feel free to caterwaul away.
     

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