I'll be interested to hear how they compare, too. Never played a 4x8, but I got to hear and play through one of the original 2x8s and loved the midrange character on that cab.
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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia
- Thread starter kesslari
- Start date
I'll be interested to hear how they compare, too. Never played a 4x8, but I got to hear and play through one of the original 2x8s and loved the midrange character on that cab.
As suspected, building cabs for lots of folks then take a quick meal and shower and off to a gig. No pressure Mike. And yes lo-freq The first? OEM eminence 48 is huge and I hope you are right re the 46. I am still blessed with a strong back and weak mind so the 48 is all good. Just want to pour on the coals in smaller bars'clubs with a smaller vortex cab. When Mike comes out with a vertical stack 48 with mid and tweet "Katy bar the door"
Oh yeah - the Valk has been on my GAS list since Roger 1st started talking about it (seems like a couple of years back or more).
That would be one 'non-mini' worth the schleptage for sure.
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I've got a flex110 on the way! That'll give me a ton of big e options. I'll have a 46, a 45, a flex 110 and the 110sub. It's fun to mix and match as they are all 8ohm cabs. Oh the possibilities.
- Dec 21, 2007
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I've had some time to play (solo) with the 210 Flex and with the tone shaping available. I'm used to a BFM Omni 10, which is to say that I'm used to a goodly bump in the low mids - playing fretless all the time, that works for me. The 210, in the "neutral" setting, has a richer tone - easier to fit into a groove-oriented tune (think Motown). The "bright" setting gives me that low-mid boost that I'm used to. I suspect that I'll use the "out of phase" sound to help tame boomy rooms, but not much otherwise, and that on gigs where I'm called on to slap I'll pull in the second tweet.
- Dec 21, 2007
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This weekend's Bay Area GTG is going to be a MAS-fest.
We'll have my 210FlexMod, Mtngrown's 48, Coyoteboy's 26, and hopefully Jule will be bringing a 46 along with some Moniquey goodness.
Should be pretty awesome.
We'll have my 210FlexMod, Mtngrown's 48, Coyoteboy's 26, and hopefully Jule will be bringing a 46 along with some Moniquey goodness.
Should be pretty awesome.
Also--to let you know---there is a simple mod that can be done to your sub so that it will function either as the bottom of a 210 or as a sub for the 45.
- Jun 29, 2006
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- President, CEO, CFO, CIO, Chief Engineer, Technician, Janitor - Reiner Amplification
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8094855.html
Above is a link to a fairly recent patent from 2012 that may explain some of the what is going on in the enclosure. The patent is for an enclosure design that combines the attributes of horns, bass reflex, and acoustic suspension into an integrated hybrid design. They are referring to it as an inverse horn loudspeaker. It centers around multiple compression chambers which serve to increase low end extension, efficiency, response time, and excursion control, as well as reduce required enclosure size over what is typically dictated with TS parameters, and reduce the length in comparison to what is normally required for 1/4 wavelength designs. They include a resonance filter chamber but mention that a lot of it can be controlled by eliminating parallel surfaces. They also mention the final output could be coupled to a flare.
So by this design, perhaps we could say the BigE guts consist of an initial compression chamber where the drivers are located feeding a second continuous compression chamber (vortex generator) feeding a constant compression chamber (waveguide) into a short horn. They also mention in additional design considerations that continuous pressure through the enclosure can be constant or even slightly relaxed for short distances but may require further compression in the next in-line chamber which might be why the waveguide necks down to the width of the vortex gen entrance (per description posted here a while back) at the beginning of the output flares...
It's a long read but there is a lot of good information and data presented in the patent to support the claims.
Above is a link to a fairly recent patent from 2012 that may explain some of the what is going on in the enclosure. The patent is for an enclosure design that combines the attributes of horns, bass reflex, and acoustic suspension into an integrated hybrid design. They are referring to it as an inverse horn loudspeaker. It centers around multiple compression chambers which serve to increase low end extension, efficiency, response time, and excursion control, as well as reduce required enclosure size over what is typically dictated with TS parameters, and reduce the length in comparison to what is normally required for 1/4 wavelength designs. They include a resonance filter chamber but mention that a lot of it can be controlled by eliminating parallel surfaces. They also mention the final output could be coupled to a flare.
So by this design, perhaps we could say the BigE guts consist of an initial compression chamber where the drivers are located feeding a second continuous compression chamber (vortex generator) feeding a constant compression chamber (waveguide) into a short horn. They also mention in additional design considerations that continuous pressure through the enclosure can be constant or even slightly relaxed for short distances but may require further compression in the next in-line chamber which might be why the waveguide necks down to the width of the vortex gen entrance (per description posted here a while back) at the beginning of the output flares...
It's a long read but there is a lot of good information and data presented in the patent to support the claims.
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- Dec 21, 2007
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Thanks for posting. I haven't read it all (not even most) but a brief scan is pretty interesting.
I actually did not plan to bring the 4x8 to the bay area GTG, since it's not currently being produced, and I anticipate if Mike/BigE start putting out a 4x8 again it will be a new animal with mids and maybe vertical. Pm me kesslari if you find this disappointing. I think that coyoteboy demoing a 2x6 and even Jule possibly bringing a 46 with his power unit, and you bringing the current flagship of the line is plenty.
- Dec 21, 2007
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Coyoteboy - awesome.
Mtngrown - no worries. I think we'll have plenty of MAS/BigE goodness to go around.
Mtngrown - no worries. I think we'll have plenty of MAS/BigE goodness to go around.
Hey Mike-
With all the work you're immersed in, is there an update on the vertical 48 situation? That modular Flex 28/28 sub has me losing sleep at night.
With all the work you're immersed in, is there an update on the vertical 48 situation? That modular Flex 28/28 sub has me losing sleep at night.
Thomas Ewers
Commercial User
Those are still in design process at this time as we balance the design needs of the several manufacturers. Before we go to far, we have a few new compelling design parameters to hammer out for possible use in the core MVW alignment. We want to work on those new ideas first to see if they should be incorporated into future releases of the MVW design.
I'm intrigued.
On another note, an update to the early impressions of the 2nd generation 6x6 cabinet that I posted toward the end of part 3: I've played the cab out twice more (three times if you count a low-volume practice with sax and guitar) since that first, jam outing. That first time, I noted that dispersion was wide and uniform (remarkably so, compared to the other amplified instruments on stage). I also noted that it was easier to hear myself onstage than it had ever been in that notoriously difficult room while playing fingerstyle, but that, at least where I was standing, the slap tone wasn't as clearly defined (which surprised me, based on what I'd heard in my living room). That first outing involved arriving at a jam-in-progress from another event and zero soundcheck time. No PA support, of course. Amp used was a Markbass F500.
Second outing: Same jam, similar situation (arriving late from another event, no time to soundcheck). Different amp (a Demeter HPB 800D), different location on stage (near, but not right in the crappy "Corner of Boom" I remember from previous outings). The cab was used for "bass bass" much of the night, but also for "guitar bass" (the house rig was set up, so we had some two-bass action on a couple of tunes). With the cab in a different place, with a different head, it's hard to make a direct comparison, but a player who'd played (and dug) the cab the first time dug it more with the Demeter -- more bottom, more girth, he said. I found pitch definition a tad more difficult than I had the first time (again, different players, different mix, different spot on stage, and some lack of dialing-in), but the slap tone was even with the fingerstyle tone. The same player who called it a "comfy couch" last time said that he had no trouble making out the slap; that it was clear and easily distinguished in the audience.
Third outing: With the F500 again. Small outdoor stage in a large park. No PA support for the bass. (I've been declining it, actually, in part because I want to see what the cab can do and in part because it's nice not to worry about what's being done to my tone. Mostly the former, though.) Playing equal parts slap and fingerstyle. This time I did have a little time to dial things in, at least roughly. On the F500: volume around noon, slight cut to treble (less than I employed at the club), slight boosts to bass and upper mids (don't remember the frequency) and, contrary to what I did in the club, a slight boost to the lower mids as well. I found the cab too thick there before, but, outside on this stage, it just felt like it hit harder that way, and didn't sound too thick at all. In this setting, the cab killed it. Big, distinct, and easy to hear playing both slap and fingerstyle. Heads bobbing and fists pumping in the crowd. Afterward, people told me that they could hear me clearly from across the park, hundreds of yards away. Compliments from the crowd and from people in various bands there that day. Granted, this was the smaller stage -- would like to see how it would do on the louder, big stage -- see if it could keep up with a large PA/subs sans support -- but it handled the loud-enough-for-earplugs smaller stage without breaking a sweat and the slap tone was killer.
I, personally, would still prefer a bit more growl/upper-midrange character than I've gotten with this cab so far, but it's proving itself to be a capable and versatile performer.
Last outing, as mentioned, was a low volume practice with sax and nylon-string guitar. Bossa nova tunes. In a reverberant room (wood floors) and with the cab right next to me, the tweeters sound a little hot/sizzly, but I've noticed that that quality disappears in the audience.
I can't comment on the technology here but, based on the graph in the latest issue of BGM, I would say the tonal profile shows what people are saying. That punch is coming from the big bump at 150hz, and the some growl and definition is coming from the other bump around 600hz. Sort of an eden xlt thing but with more extended low end. And the off axis response would be great due to the crossfired mids, not even factoring in the vortex stuff. If I saw that graph attached to a regular vented design, I would think it sounded like peoples description of the flex 210 so far.
