Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

[JBNeedsBeer]

Roger that. Yeah, I'm not squashing the signal. But I'll try that.

One thing I'm pondering is how best to get the compressor to play nice with the volume control on the bass. My habit is to keep a bit in reserve on that pot, so if a tune requires it I can bump the volume a bit. But if I set up the threshold to just begin to work at the usual volume, then opening the volume pot on the bass doesn't give me much more....

Hmn...maybe I oughtta back off the _ratio_ on the comp engine of the FEA. Not that I had either the threshold low or the ratio high, but that might bring back some responsiveness...

Anyway, thnx for the suggestion! I'll def play around with it some more...

Keep in mind that the ratio on the comp side goes from 1.5:1 to 20:1, there's a wide range within there, so even 9 o clock can result in heavy compression depending on the threshold setting. Another option you might want to try is setting the gain level on the comp side higher than the limiter side so you get a boost if you disengage the limiter rather than using the volume knob to control your levels.

 

[Ewo]

Keep in mind that the ration on the comp side goes from 1.5:1 to 20:1, there's a wide range within there, so even 9 o clock can result in heavy compression depending on the threshold setting. Another option you might want to try is setting the gain level on the comp side higher than the limiter side so you get a boost if you disengage the limiter rather than using the volume knob to control your levels.

Aha! That's a clever trick, since the limiter's gain overrides the compressor's. Cool--gotta try that.

 

[Stephen Regier]

Hey, just wanted to compare notes with my fellow Arnopol cab aficionados.

I've never been a big user of effects pedals, but from time to time I've had good results putting a compressor pedal in front of the amp's input. I'd been doing that with the cabs I used just before the MAS112 became my rig of choice. Sometimes the compressor gave me a touch of girth I'd been missing, sometimes it tamed a top end that got a bit harsh with slapping, the usual kinds of things compressors can usefully do in a live setting. And the pedals I used were very good boxes: an OvniFX Smoothie or an FEA Labs DE-CL.

But it seems like I'm happiest onstage without any compressor, using the MAS112. Feels like the compressor is getting in the way of me exploiting the cab's wonderful sensitivity to my touch--while the cab doesn't have any of those shortcomings the compressor used to address.
Thoughts?

The MVW produces what could be termed as dynamic expansion until the limits of the transducer are reached. An expander would be like a compressor running in reverse. So in essence you are placing a compressor in the signal chain in front of an expander. The MVW system will work with compressor/limiters but it takes a light touch. Too much limiting or a poor quality limiter with nueter the bass and if exteme enough cause unintelligible mid-range. We use Ashly compressors because of their very transparent and musical nature but even then only for the purpose of taming transients or unexpected peaking.

 

[Ewo]

The MVW produces what could be termed as dynamic expansion until the limits of the transducer are reached. An expander would be like a compressor running in reverse. So in essence you are placing a compressor in the signal chain in front of an expander. The MVW system will work with compressor/limiters but it takes a light touch. Too much limiting or a poor quality limiter with nueter the bass and if exteme enough cause unintelligible mid-range. We use Ashly compressors because of their very transparent and musical nature but even then only for the purpose of taming transients or unexpected peaking.

Ah. Got it. The way I'd set a comp/limiter to help out a conventional cab works against an MVW cab.

Well then, I'll just go bareback. Uh, into the amp, that is...

 

[JBNeedsBeer]

The MVW produces what could be termed as dynamic expansion until the limits of the transducer are reached. An expander would be like a compressor running in reverse. So in essence you are placing a compressor in the signal chain in front of an expander. The MVW system will work with compressor/limiters but it takes a light touch. Too much limiting or a poor quality limiter with nueter the bass and if exteme enough cause unintelligible mid-range. We use Ashly compressors because of their very transparent and musical nature but even then only for the purpose of taming transients or unexpected peaking.

So, would this also have a negative impact on running heavy dirts / fuzzes on the cabs since they add a lot of compression?

 

[Stephen Regier]

So, would this also have a negative impact on running heavy dirts / fuzzes on the cabs since they add a lot of compression?

Heavy effects could turn into unwanted output. As with the compressor, however, it will take less effect intensity to produce the desired output.

 

[MrBEAR]

With 2 live gigs under the belt the MAS 112 Signature duo has changed my life and every aspect of what I thought I knew about my gear.

String height, pickup height, hand placement, pickup balancing if so equipped with 2 pups.

All five of my amps do not sound like they used to. Neither does my David Hill Titan compressor/limiter. Coming from a more studio centered background I am able to apply some tricks of the trade from coloring. Sure the Titan can get raucous and ugly by jacking up settings but I don't utilize it that way. Easiest description is that I can get luscious coloration just like I do recording. Except now I can take it with me. No engineer, studio monitors, headphones and lastly no FOH dude that thinks he is Alan Parsons as a dance partner on sonic turf.

Hey it works for me, makes me, the bandmates, and the crowd happy.

Big E and MAS

Speaker G. A. S. now in remission.

 

[thumbs&fingers]

+1
Was on waiting list for FEA labs compressors, cancelled it. Have a CALI 76 (which is really nice) and it's now sitting in corner since getting flex 110. Still figuring out heads and preamps, but I have a few drive pedals that will be up for sale along with the CALI and a MXR compressor. These cabs really change the way you perceive sound and create sound. I have rethought a lot and really started from scratch at a p and a j bass and completely re learned tone.




QUOTE="Ewo, post: 16639308, member: 114680"]Hey, just wanted to compare notes with my fellow Arnopol cab aficionados.

I've never been a big user of effects pedals, but from time to time I've had good results putting a compressor pedal in front of the amp's input. I'd been doing that with the cabs I used just before the MAS112 became my rig of choice. Sometimes the compressor gave me a touch of girth I'd been missing, sometimes it tamed a top end that got a bit harsh with slapping, the usual kinds of things compressors can usefully do in a live setting. And the pedals I used were very good boxes: an OvniFX Smoothie or an FEA Labs DE-CL.

But it seems like I'm happiest onstage without any compressor, using the MAS112. Feels like the compressor is getting in the way of me exploiting the cab's wonderful sensitivity to my touch--while the cab doesn't have any of those shortcomings the compressor used to address.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

 

[Mike Arnopol]

BTW--thumbs&fingers---cab is done and the new Sonic Farms 2DI4 is shipping express from Vancouver today. So---in a few days I'll have both the Sonic Farm and the Fatboy on hand. Preamp shootout time!

 

[thumbs&fingers]

Ha, I'm like a kid at Xmas right now! Thanks for update Mike

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Wow nice testimonial! And I must say, I have a new paranoia. I almost always bring two heads to a gig and have been happy that I do once. Head failed, backup to the rescue. Now I have to worry about a kinked wire slowly wearing out? I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. I have been involved in 110 and 220 house wiring service drop wiring, pulled through conduit over 50 feet. I thought wire was tough. Hmmm rescue small cab to all gigs now. Unless the PA is up to it.

Don't worry. Operator error on my part. Spirit's was the first 110 Flex that went out. Very challenging wiring.Lots of fishing wire through holes and very difficult wire-pulling. What likely happened was that a wire got kinked as I was pulling and I just pulled hard to get it through. Since that cab I've figured out much better wiring routing. That happened on one of over 200 cabs. There aren't any places in any of the cabinets now where that could happen. And nothing besides the Flex's have wiring where that's even remotely possible. And since that cab---neither do the Flex's.

 

[spiritbass]

Don't worry. Operator error on my part. Spirit's was the first 110 Flex that went out. Very challenging wiring.Lots of fishing wire through holes and very difficult wire-pulling. What likely happened was that a wire got kinked as I was pulling and I just pulled hard to get it through. Since that cab I've figured out much better wiring routing. That happened on one of over 200 cabs. There aren't any places in any of the cabinets now where that could happen. And nothing besides the Flex's have wiring where that's even remotely possible. And since that cab---neither do the Flex's.

I am honored so serve as the 'guinea pig' in such a wondrous advance in bass guitar amplification. Seriously. I was just about to post this very information that Mike shared with me today to allay fears over the reliability of these killer cabs. It honestly did not occur to me that my post would arouse such doubt(s). I tried make clear just how unusual this failure was and the long odds against it happening in the first place. I worked in electronic and amplifier repair for a number of years and never witnessed anything like it. Please accept my humble apology for arousing any fear in current and potential users of these fine speakers.

 

[Razman]

I am honored so serve as the 'guinea pig' in such a wondrous advance in bass guitar amplification. Seriously. I was just about to post this very information that Mike shared with me today to allay fears over the reliability of these killer cabs. It honestly did not occur to me that my post would arouse such doubt(s). I tried make clear just how unusual this failure was and the long odds against it happening in the first place. I worked in electronic and amplifier repair for a number of years and never witnessed anything like it. Please accept my humble apology for arousing any fear in current and potential users of these fine speakers.

May I be the guinea pig for the 215?

 

[John D Harris]

BTW--thumbs&fingers---cab is done and the new Sonic Farms 2DI4 is shipping express from Vancouver today. So---in a few days I'll have both the Sonic Farm and the Fatboy on hand. Preamp shootout time!

Very cool; looking forward to your impressions!

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I've been hooking up the 110 sub with the 112 and running both vertical next to each other....Amazing!! I don't know if it's the extra juice being run or the extra bottom end from the sub but man does it kick even more! I can really crank the bass eq and the rig just loves it. This is the best rig to date.

For two years Mike has been trying to satisfy my tonal goals and beat my berg for me and I can now say this has done it.

I play lots of gigs, bars, weddings, huge theaters, auditoriums, my bedroom, outdoor gigs with huge line arrays, just lots of different places. This is what I do full time. I've used swr, gk, epifani, bergantino (almost every model) fender, fearless, polytone, acoustic image, Phil jones, audiokinesis, the list goes on, and now I've finally found what I've been looking for. Now it's just a question of how many do I need!

I've found my sound in the mas112 it makes me want to buy another, but the 110 sub is a fine addition. Thanks mike for all you do, after two years, you've nailed it for me, I'm glad I didn't stop buying after the first model!

Thanks, man

DPR is the perfect guy to test my cabs. He's not a big name and I've never heard him play. But he plays in the top Air Force bands--you have to be a bad MF to play in those bands. Huge variety of music and styles. And you'd better be able to nail 'em.

He's also a dedicated gearhead. But a gearhead who knows what he needs to function in every type of venue and situation. He's owned most of the top gear and his method of judgement is how that gear performs in every conceivable situation.

A perfect test pilot. For my cabs.

I'm so happy that the 112 is working well for you. I've listened to you and others and that has driven my product development. I'll have to send a Faital loaded 112 down to Virginia to see what you think. A bit more polite in the mids---but I think a bit more accurate--and bigger in the low end. Just a different flavor.

A question---I know it's subtle, but do you notice the tweeter when it's on? I do, but it is subtle. Actually I notice it more when it's off---just that tiny bit of extra "air" on top is missing.

 

[mntngrown]

And I, of course, never meant to speak about anything but cabs in general! These Mas cabs are made with great attention to detail. I have already learned that crossovers of other makers, and mid and treble atenuaters of other makers can fail. Capacitors can fail on amps. I was just saying, "now I have to worry about the wires too? I get the explanation. Thanks!

 

[DirtPoorRobins]

Thanks Mike, you're right on in saying I look for the Swiss Army knife for my gear because of the gigs, my bass is the same way with my sliding pickup and all. And yes I do notice the tweeter and for me is a need for sure. I love the switching on this cab and use all of the different combos. I run full range for the classic fender tone (blended pickups) i turn the tweeter off when I do the rear pickup jazz thing, and then I run just the woofer with the neck pickup for the pbass vibe thing.

 

[MarkA]

Thanks, man

DPR is the perfect guy to test my cabs. He's not a big name and I've never heard him play. But he plays in the top Air Force bands--you have to be a bad MF to play in those bands. Huge variety of music and styles. And you'd better be able to nail 'em.

He's also a dedicated gearhead. But a gearhead who knows what he needs to function in every type of venue and situation. He's owned most of the top gear and his method of judgement is how that gear performs in every conceivable situation.

A perfect test pilot. For my cabs.

I'm so happy that the 112 is working well for you. I've listened to you and others and that has driven my product development. I'll have to send a Faital loaded 112 down to Virginia to see what you think. A bit more polite in the mids---but I think a bit more accurate--and bigger in the low end. Just a different flavor.

A question---I know it's subtle, but do you notice the tweeter when it's on? I do, but it is subtle. Actually I notice it more when it's off---just that tiny bit of extra "air" on top is missing.

I'm not DPR, but I was thinking about the tweeter tonight, fiddling at home. I notice it when it's on -- that said, it's the only tweeter I've really missed when it was off. Never liked them much before -- vastly preferred the 6.5" Faital mid in my 2x12. Turning the tweeter off in the MAS 112 tonight, it actually seemed more polite up top than my tweeterless 2x12. Wondered why that was, when the 4" Faitals are supposed to go so much higher. Then I realized that I EQ the 112 differently with the tweeter on. Don't need any treble boost or extra Presence dialed in at the amp, whereas with the 2x12, I was boosting the presence and letting the mid roll it off. Turned the tweeter off on the MAS 112, rolled the tone controls open on my P/J, and dialed in some presence at the amp and, voila, got that slightly grindy (at least textured) top end. There seemed to be as "much" treble content presence as with the tweeter on, before (I know the tweeter extends higher), but of a different flavor.

When I was ordering the cab, I almost didn't get the tweeter. When I got it, I was glad I did -- didn't think I'd want to be without it. Now, I think I'd be fine without it (there's still a lot of cut and harmonic detail) but I still like having it there, just gives a different character to the top end.

Will play around with that more, but it did yield a little "aha!" moment tonight.

 

[John D Harris]

I have a question for those fortunate few who have gigged both the MAS-112 & any of the vertical MVW cabs with similar SPL capabilities.
In the band mix, do you notice a difference in the way the cabs disperse the sound either on the stage or out in the room?
Thanks for your input.

 

[mothra2]

A question---I know it's subtle, but do you notice the tweeter when it's on? I do, but it is subtle. Actually I notice it more when it's off---just that tiny bit of extra "air" on top is missing.

+1... EXACTLY how I heard that tweeters implementation there ... Acme level of quality high end there for sure. But more robust
/flexible.