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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

#1,141
radbass said:
A fellow bassist and good friend Ken, also an MAS112 owner, and I stopped by Mike's house of magic yesterday to check out some new Faital 12's I think he will be offering as an option in the 112s. It looks like these speakers will be offered in 4 or 8 ohms and they seem
to be every bit as robust as the 18sounds. We compared both the 8 and the 4 with the 18sound using a GK Fusion MB800 and a Fat Boy direct box/ pre amp into a 1200 watt ICE module based power amp. The Faital is very slightly less efficient than the 18sound, so the level of the 4 ohm seemed about equal to the 18sound 8, which has low impedance for an 8 ohm speaker. The 8 ohm Faital had slightly less output at the same volume settings, but they all maxed out pretty close. The GK had no problem pushing all three to crazy levels. It was a little stronger with the 4 ohm Faital or the 18sound, but no match for the Fat Boy into the 1200. That pre amp sounds wonderful and huge.
Comparing the sound of the speakers is where the big difference is. The 18sound is very aggressive in the upper mids, even with the 4" mids shut off. This could be the ultimate aggressive rock and roll speaker. The Faital is a totally different animal. It sounds much smoother in the upper mids, partly because it rolls off slightly there and the 18sound has an upper mid peak. The 4" mids are handling more of the upper mids than on the 18sound and sound very smooth and musical doing it. The crossovers are different for each speaker. If you shut off the mids with the Faital it really goes into Jamerson territory, where the 18sound is still very articulate. It seems to me if you want a cab that will blow the skin off peoples heads with little or no eq. the 18sound is the way to go, but if you want a smoother, more traditional sound, still very articulate and hi-fi, the Faital is the way to go.
Click to expand...
Choices are good!
 
#1,142
20141121_120904.jpg
 
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#1,151
Razman said:
Stop! Stop!! The GAS is too painful!!!

I am getting an Ampeg PR810 soon to prop up my Mesa 400. I also have a GK 410 RBH, and a 210 frankencab for grins. I would dump them all for a MAS215 to properly stand up the Mesa, any updates on that one yet?

Eric
Click to expand...

It's being worked on right now. Two 800 watt 18Sound woofers. I'd suggest going to the Big E forums and nudge Steve and Tom! Going by Vd (the amount of air moved---the best indicator of volume for a bass cab) The effective (conservative rating) Vd of the MAS215 would be around 3400 cc's. An SVT is about 1200 and a top Kappalite based 215 would be 1700.
 
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#1,152
Mike Arnopol said:
It's being worked on right now. Two 800 watt 18Sound woofers. I'd suggest going to the Big E forums and nudge Steve and Tom! Going by Vd (the amount of air moved---the best indicator of volume for a bass cab) The effective (conservative rating) Vd of the MAS215 would be around 3400 cc's. An SVT is about 1200 and a top Kappalite based 215 would be 1700.
Click to expand...

Thank you Mike, I'll update my post over there. Wow, 3400cc's? Unreal...
 
#1,154
radbass said:
A fellow bassist and good friend Ken, also an MAS112 owner, and I stopped by Mike's house of magic yesterday to check out some new Faital 12's I think he will be offering as an option in the 112s. It looks like these speakers will be offered in 4 or 8 ohms and they seem
to be every bit as robust as the 18sounds. We compared both the 8 and the 4 with the 18sound using a GK Fusion MB800 and a Fat Boy direct box/ pre amp into a 1200 watt ICE module based power amp. The Faital is very slightly less efficient than the 18sound, so the level of the 4 ohm seemed about equal to the 18sound 8, which has low impedance for an 8 ohm speaker. The 8 ohm Faital had slightly less output at the same volume settings, but they all maxed out pretty close. The GK had no problem pushing all three to crazy levels. It was a little stronger with the 4 ohm Faital or the 18sound, but no match for the Fat Boy into the 1200. That pre amp sounds wonderful and huge.
Comparing the sound of the speakers is where the big difference is. The 18sound is very aggressive in the upper mids, even with the 4" mids shut off. This could be the ultimate aggressive rock and roll speaker. The Faital is a totally different animal. It sounds much smoother in the upper mids, partly because it rolls off slightly there and the 18sound has an upper mid peak. The 4" mids are handling more of the upper mids than on the 18sound and sound very smooth and musical doing it. The crossovers are different for each speaker. If you shut off the mids with the Faital it really goes into Jamerson territory, where the 18sound is still very articulate. It seems to me if you want a cab that will blow the skin off peoples heads with little or no eq. the 18sound is the way to go, but if you want a smoother, more traditional sound, still very articulate and hi-fi, the Faital is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Yeah---sometimes goofing around yields good results. I didn't try the Faital because Duke thought that the fact that it is a bit down from 500 hz up (around 3db) was a deal breaker. I thought "hmmm---maybe it could be a good thing". The Faital is really smooth---it just dips from the mids up. Which made it a perfect candidate to use the Faital 4's crossed over much lower than the 18Sound 112. With the 18sound, most of the mids to 2k are coming from the woofer. With the Faital 112's most of the mids are coming from the 4's. I can control them a bit better and manipulate them as needed.

With the 112 I set out to make a more mid-forward cab that would be suitable for rock and more aggressive roles. We then tried to eek out as much midrange smoothness as we could within the realm of a stronger voiced cab. So--the 18Sound 112 is powerful but any extra mid to upper bass warmth is voiced out. It doesn't do "wooly". It's the clearest cab I make.

The Faital version is bigger but still balanced in the low end. A bit more upper bass/lower mid "warmth". Very even and articulate mids---but not aggressive. More natural sounding with music playback.
 
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#1,155
MrBEAR said:
So for in context comparison the ballpark VD of the the above captioned Double MAS 112 would be?
Click to expand...

Somewhere around 2000 cc's. I can attest to that as we compared two top end 12 cabs with one MAS112. They went to about the same max volume (two 12" reflex cabs and one 112). And the VD on one of those cabs is around 500 cc's.
 
#1,156
How awesome is that rig?

Like playing bass in Shangrila.

That said, for anyone that has a MAS 112, it is not at all like getting more, or even getting twice as much of an outstandingly good thing.

There is, a synergistic manipulation, that envelopes you with every note. Not hits you with, not necessarily punched (although that happens too), but envision the sensation of feeling like you are inside a very large bubble. As that "note bubble" reaches me I can feel it envelope me and squeeze.

Every note is quick, articulate and delivers music you can feel as well as hear.

Hard to put into words..... I have never encountered a phenomenon like this speaker cabinet.

Sounds superlative with the Glockenklang, outstandingly good with the Warwick LA1000, not so much with the Aguilar TH350 (probably have to revisit EQ ing that one. The Matchless Thunder man is breathtakingly sweet although I am considering a MAS Essential specifically for the Thunderman.

Cheers

Steve
 
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#1,157
Yesterday I had the fortune [misfortune?] of trying two MAS112s together. I was comparing Ken's cab with the Faital to my cab with the 18sound. I tried running both together in our practice basement and had to immediately unplug one before I caused my drummer even more brain damage. Two of those things may be good for concert stages or outside, if you don't knock airplanes out of the sky, but, inside they make you feel like your head is going to implode. Mr. Bear is right about the squeezing, but I was thinking more like crushing. Anyway I was really impressed with the Faitlal. It doesn't have the mid aggressiveness of the 18sound, but it sounds very smooth. Still goes really high, but slightly less high and upper mid volume. The low mids and bass are at least as strong as the 18sound. Two different voices from the same cab. I generally like very forward upper mids, but the cab with the Faital sounds so rich, I'm not sure which one I like better. I want them both.
 
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