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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

#1,261
20141210_111519.jpg


That' all folks I am done with G.A.S.

Regarding Le Fay basses:

I played one and bought two.
Pangton 5 and Herr Schwarzenegger 4.

Edit: the actual model as presented at Luthiers Access Group was "Herr Schwarz Blau".


Cheers,
 
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#1,263
Car repairs nixed my plan to get a second MAS112 as a Christmas selfie-present... :bawl: ...

...but I'm curious, Mr. BEAR, if you find that your pair (the rhyme be fine!) sound different stacked horizontal as opposed to side-by-side vertical.
 
#1,266
Ewo said:
Car repairs nixed my plan to get a second MAS112 as a Christmas selfie-present... :bawl: ...

...but I'm curious, Mr. BEAR, if you find that your pair (the rhyme be fine!) sound different stacked horizontal as opposed to side-by-side vertical.
Click to expand...

Yes Ewo, they sound different to me.
Now first off my shrunken stature, age, and surgical battle scars do not allow me to stand and play. I use a Pearl road runner throne both live and in studio.

About the only analogy I can offer is neither scientific or verifiable.

Again to me the side by side vertical achieves a room presentation akin to a geisha ' s fan. Spreads evenly across and into the room; much as I presume Mr. Arnopol and the Big E engineers intended.

Horizontal ticks the same boxes as above but with a plus plus differential in that each note becomes quicker and clearer. All while achieving a 3-D effect that envelopes you with each note.

Aural sonics, palpable feel, like a boy in a bubble being squeezed. When the note stops so does the feel although while letting notes sustain it takes me back to my Tube Days of the 60's.

Like I said I am done chasing the sounds in my head; as I can live inside each note for as long as I am able to play.

Total thanks, respect, and admiration to all the people whose gear appears in my photo above.

Last of all many many thanks to the matchmaker Dan Lenard.

Cheers, hope this helps as I have not run double vertical live yet.
 
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#1,267
Okay one more thought regarding double
MAS112' s.

The reason for stating plus plus differential above, and again for me, is that the usual times two cabs results do not apply.
The 3D effect is just there with a single in any orientation. Not saying just there is bad. If I had not ordered and experienced the huge effect doubling presents I would have been totally happy with one. This effect is not, IME, at all volume dependent. The 3D bubble is there at low levels. Although the more juice you push the farther that bubble reaches by expanding appropriately.

Stupid confession time.
You can add my name to the scroll of MAS users that had to stop playing or go goofy from the spins gone vertigo. Most of those experiencing those sensations occurred via volume.
I got there at lower levels using a double horizontal configuration.

Your Results May Vary
Truly hope so too. Don't need others sounding like a clone of me.

:D
 
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#1,268
Mr. Bear's comments about "spins gone vertigo" are not a joke. I've gotten nauseous and felt like my head was going to explode getting a little carried away playing my two 46 cabs (horizontal stack) in my workshop. It doesn't really seem that loud but then I realize I'm getting sick. I'll come home from a gig and set up my rig with the settings right where they were on the gig and I'm blown away at how low volume it is. I never do anything but cruise comfortably on a gig and we're a rather loud band with a pretty hard hitting drummer. I have a 112 and I do admit I'd like to experience two. I used the 112 with my Streamliner in a very cramped setup space (although the room was pretty big and I had PA support) this past weekend and it was way more than adequate.
 
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#1,270
It's weird---you do play more softly on the gig but feel like you're taking care of business better. At least for me. As Gantt said---you'll find that your "goofing around" volume at home is often stupid loud. Louder than a loud gig.
As Tom Bowlus said in his review----objects on shelves will be dancing around if you hit the cab hard.

So the good news is that the physical impact is quite palpable. And the bad news is that the physical impact is quite palpable.

So---don't push it at home. You can crank the beejeezus out of the cabs as the space gets bigger. But you'll overly pressurize the room if you push it past a reasonable volume. They're fine being pushed at home or a rehearsal. Just realize that a softer volume will likely get the job done even more effectively.

They just don't show the typical signs of a cab reaching its limits. So-=--the temptation is to keep pushing.

You just have to realize---as far as the ability to move air---I'll again use the Vd--the volume of air moved---

Two MAS46's---about 1200 cc's
210 Flex about 1200 cc's
MAS112 about 1000 cc's
Ampeg SVT about 1100 cc's
A Kappalite loaded ported 15 cab about 850 cc's
A Kappalite loaded ported 212 about 1000 cc's

I'm only mentioning the comparisons to let you guys know---use common sense with these cabs. Not saying that they're better or worse than other cabs---they just present the sound in a different way.
 
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#1,271
I concur with Gantt & Mike.

I no longer open volume controls anywhere close to full on.

I play with an even lighter touch than before.

There is a reason we differentiate between gig and home volumes.

Those early photos of the LWA 1000 atop the vertical stack were taken before I fired up into 45 acres of field and woods.

Equipped with Etymotic Research Baby Blues and a 20' cable I recall either 20 or 40 minutes in cold weather at maybe noon on the master and a healthy dose of the "unique" one knob compressor had me all wound up and feeling like a parrot ready to spin on his perch.

So with a MAS Cab Double 112 Signature
the first SPIN is always the worst.
One quickly learns it is okay to ask some one's opinion if your system is volume appropriate for the venue.

So when armed with "bubble pressure" fondly remember your first Spin and you will be reminded that you shouldn't play the lead role in "Spin II".

Probably should have the front tables sign off on spirit expulsion by patrons due to prolonged proximity to the vortexitude created through bubble pressure.

No joke jamoke. I can see the headlines forming.....
 
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#1,273
Mike Arnopol said:
It's weird---you do play more softly on the gig but feel like you're taking care of business better. At least for me. As Gantt said---you'll find that your "goofing around" volume at home is often stupid loud. Louder than a loud gig.
As Tom Bowlus said in his review----objects on shelves will be dancing around if you hit the cab hard.

So the good news is that the physical impact is quite palpable. And the bad news is that the physical impact is quite palpable.

So---don't push it at home. You can crank the beejeezus out of the cabs as the space gets bigger. But you'll overly pressurize the room if you push it past a reasonable volume. They're fine being pushed at home or a rehearsal. Just realize that a softer volume will likely get the job done even more effectively.

They just don't show the typical signs of a cab reaching its limits. So-=--the temptation is to keep pushing.

You just have to realize---as far as the ability to move air---I'll again use the Vd--the volume of air moved---

Two MAS46's---about 1200 cc's
210 Flex about 1200 cc's
MAS112 about 1000 cc's
Ampeg SVT about 1100 cc's
A Kappalite loaded ported 15 cab about 850 cc's
A Kappalite loaded ported 212 about 1000 cc's

I'm only mentioning the comparisons to let you guys know---use common sense with these cabs. Not saying that they're better or worse than other cabs---they just present the sound in a different way.
Click to expand...
And this is the beauty of these cabs, along with the MVW experience. I can take my one 46 which is a one hand carry, and fill most of my dive bar gigs even though there are some Hendrix and SRV numbers on the set list with the other blues numbers. I have the more powerful cabs for bigger clubs and outside gigs. These are the size and weight vs output i.e. get er done with a small pack space champs IMHO
 
#1,276
Ewo said:
And all this time, I thought the signs of gastric distress patrons sometimes exhibited at the front tables were due to my fumble-finger clams on the bass... :roflmao: (JK)
Click to expand...

It actually is!!!
Seriously, folks
Theses cabs have much less of the "front couple of rows getting killed by bass" phenomena. The sound level isn't substantially higher at 10 feet as let's say 40 feet. Yes, of course it does drop off---but much less than you'd think. So---you're playing at a lower level on stage, the first few rows don't get blasted, and you still have lots of clarity (and volume) at the back of the room.
 
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#1,277
played a handful of gigs this weekend with the 210 Flex. Nice sounding rooms, bad sounding rooms, horrible stage placement, you name it... I will say that the Flex handled it all with ease and style. The fingerfunk staccato stuff was amazing, between the quickness of the cab and the total lack of note 'overhang', it makes the dead spaces and ghost notes seem exponentially more usable in a mix. I have to do a lot of shaping in the upper mids and treble to my liking, but the result is spectacular.
 
#1,279
Thermal rating on the 112 is
800 watts for the 8 ohm 18Sound
1000 watts for the 4 ohm Faital

That's thermal---continuous is lower

I'd say 500 to 600 continuous. You could happily drive one with 400 watts. They'll take the 800 watt peaks no problem. Most manufacturers use the thermal rating as their peak power. Which is kindof bs. That's the point you'll melt the voice coil---not the point that the speaker bottoms out from over-excursion. So those ratings don't reflect the functional wall---where you can't push then speaker without severe distortion or bottoming out.

I don't think that you'd need more than 600 watts. I can bottom one out by cranking up the Ice 1000 (600 watts into 8) as loud as it will go.
 
#1,280
3rdcurve said:
Correct, the switch is kind of a "smoother" circuit.
Click to expand...

What that switch actually does is remove the padding. Crossover point stays close to the same. You get about 3db more mid output. An important thing---when the pad is removed, the impedance is a bit too low to combine two of the cabs. It's fine with one cab running, but worries me with two cabs. So---if you're running two cabs together, leave the padding in. If your amp is comfortable down to 2.67 ohms---it's fine. But with amps like the Demeters, Puma 900, GKFusion800, and other amps based on the same Ice module----these amps aren't thrilled with what I would call a "low" 4 ohms, or slamming all of its output into 4.
I just figured that most sane people wouldn't be running two at the same time.

But there are some insane people here.

Like the TB member that is waiting for the MAS215. Effective VD of 3400 cc's. I wouldn't want to be in the same state with that thing cranked.
 
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