Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

[MrBEAR]

Maybe this will help.

 

[kesslari]

This isn't a living room cab. Needs a little room to open up.

First - another great description. Thanks Mark.

Since my guitarist had his stroke I've been mostly playing at home - took me a while before I wanted to start auditioning, and not many bands that interest me enough to go try out.
The Flex 210 sounds great at home.

But I was forcibly reminded at my last jam (a couple of weeks ago) that at band volume and in the mix, it sounds incredible.

 

[BuffaloBob4343]

Maybe this will help.

That rig is majorly sick!

And no, that is not helping me be good in any way shape or form!

 

[mntngrown]

First - another great description. Thanks Mark.

Since my guitarist had his stroke I've been mostly playing at home - took me a while before I wanted to start auditioning, and not many bands that interest me enough to go try out.
The Flex 210 sounds great at home.

But I was forcibly reminded at my last jam (a couple of weeks ago) that at band volume and in the mix, it sounds incredible.

Glad to see you are getting out in a mix with the rig!

 

[MarkA]

First - another great description. Thanks Mark.

Since my guitarist had his stroke I've been mostly playing at home - took me a while before I wanted to start auditioning, and not many bands that interest me enough to go try out.
The Flex 210 sounds great at home.

But I was forcibly reminded at my last jam (a couple of weeks ago) that at band volume and in the mix, it sounds incredible.

I, too, am glad to hear of you getting out, and wish your guitarist the best.

Re. the Flex, it and the 112 both sound good -- clear and full range, with their own respective voicings -- at home, and I practice through them there. There is a palpable change to the feel, though, that happens when you get them to certain volume, and I don't feel that you can properly judge the cabs until you get them into that zone -- Mike and others have referred to it as a "sweet spot", but it's pretty broad. I did a lot of fiddling with EQ and obsessive listening at home -- I won't say that it was for naught, as the qualities I perceived at home volume remain at gig volume, but they are present in differing degrees and proportion. In my admittedly limited experience with it (three outings, one with just the top and two with the sub), the Flex on the gig sounds like the Flex at home, but filled-out -- the balance between the registers is better. The amount and quality of the kick-drum feel it has is markedly different, though -- much more present and more percussive at volume than at home. And it really does fill a space. I don't know if I've felt that I was standing in a "bubble" of bass, as some have described, but I did feel like the bass was everywhere on stage. It was a good feeling.

As for the EQ, as I should know by now, it's different on stage with a band at gig volume -- not to say that fiddling around at home doesn't teach you something and inform your choices at the gig, but the answer to days worth of fiddling sometimes happens in about 30 seconds when you hear it on stage.

I'm still getting a handle on this cab -- you, Jake, nomatic, and the other guys who have way more experience with it than I do will have a better idea of its ins and outs.

That rig is majorly sick!

And no, that is not helping me be good in any way shape or form!

Let's look at it this way, starting with the premise, "Everything is relative."

• Mr. Bear has three 112s. You have one. Relative to Mr. Bear, you have negative two (-2) cabs.
• If you buy two more cabs, you will have zero cabs, relatively speaking.
  
• You need at least one cab to play. To achieve that, you need to acquire three more cabs.

To whit: You need at least four cabs total. That will give you one cab, which is the minimum you need to play.

Since you need to save up for three more cabs, I'll waive my fee in this case.

 

[mntngrown]

I warned you about posting after the medicine kicks in

 

[BuffaloBob4343]

Let's look at it this way, starting with the premise, "Everything is relative."

• Mr. Bear has three 112s. You have one. Relative to Mr. Bear, you have negative two (-2) cabs.
• If you buy two more cabs, you will have zero cabs, relatively speaking.
  
• You need at least one cab to play. To achieve that, you need to acquire three more cabs.

To whit: You need at least four cabs total. That will give you one cab, which is the minimum you need to play.

Since you need to save up for three more cabs, I'll waive my fee in this case.

Hilarious!

 

[Dee-man]

I think you lost me on getting to 4 cabs there, Bob, but far be it for a weekend hack like me who has too much equipment to argue with trying more cabs.

In that vein, I've been very slow to respond to mntngrown's inquiry a few pages ago about the 46/110 combo at rehearsal, which also revives a discussion from about 10 days ago regarding this combo and, in my mind at least, the new MAS1200.

So, I used the 46/110 with a loud drummer and 2 loud guitars a couple weeks ago in a high-ceiling open large garage. Played Dead and jam-band blues stuff. I was playing a Birdsong 4-string Cortobass (P pups) with flats. Was using a Minnie 800D amp and various pedal preamps, a compressor and overdrive pedals. I was standing very close to the speakers, so I never had a problem hearing myself. I was never asked to turn up, but I did turn up a bit about 2/3 of the way through for more authority. The 110 definitely adds girth to the 46 but it's not flabby like me. And, of course, the 46 cut through very nicely in the mids/highs.

There was also a noticeable difference when the cabs were put in different configurations. I liked the amp going direct to both cabs better than daisy chaining from the sub with the crossover engaged (which raises the floor of the lows going to the 46, if I understand that right). It sounded fuller in the low/low-mid, not surprisingly, but different flavors of course. The difference is similar to when you put the cabs horizontal or vertical. When the 46 is horizontal on top of the 110 it is fuller and more authoritative vs. standing the 46 vertical on top of the horizontal 110 (and the mid/high mid/highs are more pronounced in this position if the cab is daisy-chained with with the sub's crossover engaged). I did not try the 110 vertically.

The real proof in the pudding was when I listened to the recordings (nothing fancy - just a zoom on top of a piano in the room). This was only the second time I came through decently - the bass had good authority, took up some space, but was tight and the mids and highs came through, especially when playing above the 10th fret, give or take.

So, I'm either stating the obvious or repeating myself at this point, but this combo has been really fun so far - punchy, authoritative and articulate. (And did I mention how easy it is to move around? The 110 is even lighter than the 46.) It's definitely not as big and enveloping to my ears as the 112/46 combo I tried together, and probably not a 112 (going from memory). But I think the combo is also voiced differently than the 112 (mine has a Faital 1000, 8 ohms and no tweeter) and it held its own for moderately loud volume (Minnie at 1:00). It could've gotten louder but my ears can't take it.

I'd be curious to compare the new MAS-1200 to my set-up and other combos. I don't know if it has the "regular" sub like mine and, of course, it has the "single cab vibe" going for it.

Anyway, enough rambling. Hope this helps some of you. I plan on bringing these cabs to the Bay Area GTG, which I'm hoping to attend.

Finally, gotta give a big shout out to the Golden State Warriors for a great season! DM

 

[mntngrown]

I think you lost me on getting to 4 cabs there, Bob, but far be it for a weekend hack like me who has too much equipment to argue with trying more cabs.

In that vein, I've been very slow to respond to mntngrown's inquiry a few pages ago about the 46/110 combo at rehearsal, which also revives a discussion from about 10 days ago regarding this combo and, in my mind at least, the new MAS1200.

So, I used the 46/110 with a loud drummer and 2 loud guitars a couple weeks ago in a high-ceiling open large garage. Played Dead and jam-band blues stuff. I was playing a Birdsong 4-string Cortobass (P pups) with flats. Was using a Minnie 800D amp and various pedal preamps, a compressor and overdrive pedals. I was standing very close to the speakers, so I never had a problem hearing myself. I was never asked to turn up, but I did turn up a bit about 2/3 of the way through for more authority. The 110 definitely adds girth to the 46 but it's not flabby like me. And, of course, the 46 cut through very nicely in the mids/highs.

There was also a noticeable difference when the cabs were put in different configurations. I liked the amp going direct to both cabs better than daisy chaining from the sub with the crossover engaged (which raises the floor of the lows going to the 46, if I understand that right). It sounded fuller in the low/low-mid, not surprisingly, but different flavors of course. The difference is similar to when you put the cabs horizontal or vertical. When the 46 is horizontal on top of the 110 it is fuller and more authoritative vs. standing the 46 vertical on top of the horizontal 110 (and the mid/high mid/highs are more pronounced in this position if the cab is daisy-chained with with the sub's crossover engaged). I did not try the 110 vertically.

The real proof in the pudding was when I listened to the recordings (nothing fancy - just a zoom on top of a piano in the room). This was only the second time I came through decently - the bass had good authority, took up some space, but was tight and the mids and highs came through, especially when playing above the 10th fret, give or take.

So, I'm either stating the obvious or repeating myself at this point, but this combo has been really fun so far - punchy, authoritative and articulate. (And did I mention how easy it is to move around? The 110 is even lighter than the 46.) It's definitely not as big and enveloping to my ears as the 112/46 combo I tried together, and probably not a 112 (going from memory). But I think the combo is also voiced differently than the 112 (mine has a Faital 1000, 8 ohms and no tweeter) and it held its own for moderately loud volume (Minnie at 1:00). It could've gotten louder but my ears can't take it.

I'd be curious to compare the new MAS-1200 to my set-up and other combos. I don't know if it has the "regular" sub like mine and, of course, it has the "single cab vibe" going for it.

Anyway, enough rambling. Hope this helps some of you. I plan on bringing these cabs to the Bay Area GTG, which I'm hoping to attend.

Finally, gotta give a big shout out to the Golden State Warriors for a great season! DM

Nice review Dee I hope you can sell the 112 before we all meet, but of course I do want to hear it if you don't. I went to high school in Oakland when Rick Barry and the team brought the last championship home, and saw a few games then, thanks to my dad, who also had Raider's season tickets for a few of the great years. (He got to score super bowl tickets). But I digress. Great if you and all the other great players/owners can make it. I appreciate the input from people who know how to use all the tools at their disposal. Should be a great learning experience for me.

 

[MarkA]

I think you lost me on getting to 4 cabs there, Bob, but far be it for a weekend hack like me who has too much equipment to argue with trying more cabs.

In that vein, I've been very slow to respond to mntngrown's inquiry a few pages ago about the 46/110 combo at rehearsal, which also revives a discussion from about 10 days ago regarding this combo and, in my mind at least, the new MAS1200.

So, I used the 46/110 with a loud drummer and 2 loud guitars a couple weeks ago in a high-ceiling open large garage. Played Dead and jam-band blues stuff. I was playing a Birdsong 4-string Cortobass (P pups) with flats. Was using a Minnie 800D amp and various pedal preamps, a compressor and overdrive pedals. I was standing very close to the speakers, so I never had a problem hearing myself. I was never asked to turn up, but I did turn up a bit about 2/3 of the way through for more authority. The 110 definitely adds girth to the 46 but it's not flabby like me. And, of course, the 46 cut through very nicely in the mids/highs.

There was also a noticeable difference when the cabs were put in different configurations. I liked the amp going direct to both cabs better than daisy chaining from the sub with the crossover engaged (which raises the floor of the lows going to the 46, if I understand that right). It sounded fuller in the low/low-mid, not surprisingly, but different flavors of course. The difference is similar to when you put the cabs horizontal or vertical. When the 46 is horizontal on top of the 110 it is fuller and more authoritative vs. standing the 46 vertical on top of the horizontal 110 (and the mid/high mid/highs are more pronounced in this position if the cab is daisy-chained with with the sub's crossover engaged). I did not try the 110 vertically.

The real proof in the pudding was when I listened to the recordings (nothing fancy - just a zoom on top of a piano in the room). This was only the second time I came through decently - the bass had good authority, took up some space, but was tight and the mids and highs came through, especially when playing above the 10th fret, give or take.

So, I'm either stating the obvious or repeating myself at this point, but this combo has been really fun so far - punchy, authoritative and articulate. (And did I mention how easy it is to move around? The 110 is even lighter than the 46.) It's definitely not as big and enveloping to my ears as the 112/46 combo I tried together, and probably not a 112 (going from memory). But I think the combo is also voiced differently than the 112 (mine has a Faital 1000, 8 ohms and no tweeter) and it held its own for moderately loud volume (Minnie at 1:00). It could've gotten louder but my ears can't take it.

I'd be curious to compare the new MAS-1200 to my set-up and other combos. I don't know if it has the "regular" sub like mine and, of course, it has the "single cab vibe" going for it.

Anyway, enough rambling. Hope this helps some of you. I plan on bringing these cabs to the Bay Area GTG, which I'm hoping to attend.

Finally, gotta give a big shout out to the Golden State Warriors for a great season! DM

Hey, Dee-Man,

When you say "regular sub" do you mean the one from the 45/110 combo? If so, that would give a pretty different result than using the sub from the Flex cabs, which is what nomatic and Mike have done and what, I believe, the 1200 VOG is based on (not sure if that has further crossover tweaks).

The 45/110 sub and the Flex sub (both referred to as "sub" or "110 sub" in this thread, so it's confusing) are, far as I know, the same speaker and same box with a different crossover. Mike talks about this some earlier in the thread. The 46+Flex sub are supposed to go about as loud as a 210 Flex, which, going by displacement, should go louder than a 112. The 112 + 46 should be louder than any of those combos, though.

 

[MarkA]

I warned you about posting after the medicine kicks in

After the medicine kicks in, I don't know any better.

 

[BuffaloBob4343]

I think you lost me on getting to 4 cabs there, Bob, but far be it for a weekend hack like me who has too much equipment to argue with trying more cabs.

Hey Dee-man, I cannot take credit for that brilliant bit of logical reasoning, as that was Mark's thesis.

Rest assured, notwithstanding the undeniable and indelible truth of it, I assure you I will not be purchasing three more cabs in order to have virtually one more cab.

However, it is not out of the question that I may actually get one more MAS112, even though according to Mark's unassailable logic, that will leave me with negative 1 cabs!

 

[Dee-man]

Hey Mark, I have the 110 from the 45/110. Others with better ears might hear the difference with the Flex sub (I might even too, but never heard one), but this combo works for me.

Bob, 2 112's would kill. Someone here has 2 red ones that keep horizontal that looks killer. Post pics if you ever pull the trigger. And thanks for the likes.

 

[iualum]

Would love a 2nd 18Sound 112. Until then, I'll make do with 1 plus the 66 I'll be picking up soon. Who know, though? Once the 66 is here, might decide it'll pair with the 112 plenty nicely enough .

 

[MarkA]

Would love a 2nd 18Sound 112. Until then, I'll make do with 1 plus the 66 I'll be picking up soon. Who know, though? Once the 66 is here, might decide it'll pair with the 112 plenty nicely enough .

Having never played that combo, I can't say for sure, but I think it would be pretty killin'. The math says it would go about as loud as a hypothetical 310 Flex (that was more fun to say than "half again as loud..."). You'll just need somewhere you can open it up!

 

[iualum]

Having never played that combo, I can't say for sure, but I think it would be pretty killin'. The math says it would go about as loud as a hypothetical 310 Flex (that was more fun to say than "half again as loud..."). You'll just need somewhere you can open it up!

Yep, your math is correct (900+900/1200). And also, yep, bet it was fun to say . Would've been fun for me, fersure .

 

[MarkA]

Yep, your math is correct (900+900/1200). And also, yep, bet it was fun to say . Would've been fun for me, fersure .

The real fun will come when you run an extension cord from the RV and play it for sing-alongs around the campfire.

Do you have the 112 now, then?

 

[kesslari]

Y'all are spookin' the horses again...
I like it.

 

[iualum]

The real fun will come when you run an extension cord from the RV and play it for sing-alongs around the campfire.

Do you have the 112 now, then?

The campfire. Ha!

It's still a-comin'. Should arrive sometime middle of next week.

 

[MarkA]

Hey Mark, I have the 110 from the 45/110. Others with better ears might hear the difference with the Flex sub (I might even too, but never heard one), but this combo works for me.

Hey, can't argue with what works.

Since I have a 46 on order, I asked Mike about using it with the sub(s). The 45/110 sub, he said, is crossed-over pretty low (100 Hz? 150 Hz? Don't quote me on the numbers.), whereas the Flex sub is crossed over higher (500 Hz? 600 Hz? Again don't know exactly where.). The result, according to Mike, was that the 45 sub with the 46 would give a big low end where the Flex sub would contribute some to the mids and be louder overall. From the conversation, it sounded like the difference would be significant, but how much, I can't say from experience.

For me, the decision to pick up the Flex (which I'm digging more with each outing) and the decision to order the 46 were made somewhat in tandem - with the Flex sub, it's a bit of a two-fer as I'll get to try both combos without having to spring for two subs.

I wonder if it would be possible to build a sub with two crossovers that you could switch between, for the 45 and the 46. (Just thinking aloud!)