Big E speakers: Pt 2

[mntngrown]

In case someone is reading the thread for the first time, there are a number of us, who own them, and many who have tried them. Most are very favorably impressed, including people in the recording business. I play mine in clubs, bars, outdoor parties etc. I am VERY impressed, and my BigE48 is the cab I choose 1st now. I have others.

 

[lelandcrooks]

The demo cabs referred to ship in the sf reference above are/were ready. I have had them ready about 3 times, somebody walks in the shop, and buys them for their home theater. A PA cab. Last batch I got serious and built 12 cabs. I will be sending them fairly soon.

And to echo Mike, if you looked in there and saw a bass reflex cab, you don't know what a bass reflex looks like either.

 

[Rick James]

The backwave in the MVW's comes out full frequency.

I know. That's the problem. Engineers figured out a long time ago that you can't do that without causing all sorts of problems. It shows up in the measurements. You can see it even in the few on axis charts posted at the BigE site, it will be even more obvious off-axis. If you've got measurements that prove me wrong post them.

A few snide little comments by trolls with an obvious agenda without any willingness to research the facts can put what is a really cool new product in a negative light.Which is unfair.

All I want to see is proof of what you've been claiming. I've tried to find facts at the big E site, they aren't there.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

back to our regularly scheduled program

Just got the crossover parts in. I used only the 10's in two Flex bottoms. (one is for Spiritbass---pardon the dust and dirt--in progress) One other thing---I've never liked passive crossovers at low frequencies. I could always hear a compromise in the low end impact. Steve has me sold on these toroidal inductor coils. He said he couldn't hear a difference between the elctronic xover on his Ashley and the passive xover with the toroids.I can't either. This is what opened a whole bunch of possibilities. I don't consider the 3010lf viable above--say--300hz---lots of BIG peaks and dips. But if we cross over low---lots of options.The toroids are really expensive. As are the metal cased non-inductive resistors we're using. But they sound better.

It will sound a bit better with the Ciare tweets.

Holy Moly--I expect my hearing to return in a few days. I'm pretty sure I was putting all of the Puma's 900 into it.Master up full, my Roscoe up full--just hittiing the overload lights on the input gain.

WOW.

The sound of the 45/85 at arena volume. Lows like I've NEVER heard.The only component beginning to complain were the Vifa tweets. But only a wee bit. Two Ciares---no prob.

I'm thinking of keeping the Pures as a modular setup. Have a pad switch on the 45 for use with one 110 sub---run it open into two subs or for more pronounced mids with one.

I think that the Flex sounds just as good---just different with a whole slew of options. But the low end is the same on both---and pretty scary.

I have wood cut out for two 110 subs--they'll be done next week.They are identical to the lower half of the 110 Flex's.

Size of the subs are 26 wide. x 13 high by 14 deep.
Likely around 30#

 

[seamonkey]

In case someone is reading the thread for the first time, there are a number of us, who own them, and many who have tried them. Most are very favorably impressed, including people in the recording business. I play mine in clubs, bars, outdoor parties etc. I am VERY impressed, and my BigE48 is the cab I choose 1st now. I have others.

Again, in cases someone is reading this thread for the first time.

There is plenty of experienced and happy customers with Big-E. Nothing wrong with that.

Asking for measurements is in no way disagreeing with personal experience or opinion.

Personal Experience, Opinion, are not a dichotomy. They often go hand in hand in the real world. This is what improves products over time. Take what's available, measure it, improve it, measure the improvement, ...

In most cases the measurement usually match up to actual listening experiences. I can't think of any cases where this hasn't been true.

Science gets something wrong once in a while, but it is a process, self correcting, and gets it right more often than wrong.

If there is a new technology for Big-E it would be interesting to see what the measurements say about these compared to other reference speakers.

PA use of Big-E cabinets is often mentioned even in this thread. And in PA/FOH field it is more common than not that measurements are taken and made available. But of course a soundperson is no good if it doesn't sound good. There has to be a listening aspect to it. A sanity test.

 

[GK Breivik]

Mike, could you give us an overview of the product line?
I'm a happy customer, and I try my best to keep up with the current info in these threads.

Still, it's hard to keep track. What's the Pure line, and what does the Flex line mean.

Thanks!

GK

 

[spiritbass]

Hide the women & children - it's Frankenstack!

 

[Mike Arnopol]

I really do agree with you.I think that EVERYTHING can be measured.We're really, honestly, for sure---working on that.

I also know that there are more phenomena occurring that require additional ways of measuring. We're working on that, too. I'll look back and find the comparison graph with the TC115.

Again, in cases someone is reading this thread for the first time.

There is plenty of experienced and happy customers with Big-E. Nothing wrong with that.

Asking for measurements is in no way disagreeing with personal experience or opinion.

Personal Experience, Opinion, are not a dichotomy. They often go hand in hand in the real world. This is what improves products over time. Take what's available, measure it, improve it, measure the improvement, ...

In most cases the measurement usually match up to actual listening experiences. I can't think of any cases where this hasn't been true.

Science gets something wrong once in a while, but it is a process, self correcting, and gets it right more often than wrong.

If there is a new technology for Big-E it would be interesting to see what the measurements say about these compared to other reference speakers.

PA use of Big-E cabinets is often mentioned even in this thread. And in PA/FOH field it is more common than not that measurements are taken and made available. But of course a soundperson is no good if it doesn't sound good. There has to be a listening aspect to it. A sanity test.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Alright! Shut down by the police. Mission accomplished!!!

Just played the two 110 subs and the 45 with some Steely Dan and some French remixes of Salif Keita stuff.

It retains the quality as a stereo of the 45's with the most beastly low end (especially on the remixes) I've ever heard.

 

[spiritbass]

Alright! Shut down by the police. Mission accomplished!!!

Just played the two 110 subs and the 45 with some Steely Dan and some French remixes of Salif Keita stuff.

It retains the quality as a stereo of the 45's with the most beastly low end (especially on the remixes) I've ever heard.

You and Leland are getting quite notorious with the decibel police.

 

[mntngrown]

I stopped going to some venues with massive sound systems because they butcher the world class artists sound.
And Mike, please wear hearing protection. I know some folks who are never getting their hearing back without the someday advances of stem cell research etc.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

I stopped going to some venues with massive sound systems because they butcher the world class artists sound.
And Mike, please wear hearing protection. I know some folks who are never getting their hearing back without the someday advances of stem cell research etc.

I hope they're working on that as we speak!

 

[Jazzdogg]

back to our regularly scheduled program

Just got the crossover parts in. I used only the 10's in two Flex bottoms. (one is for Spiritbass---pardon the dust and dirt--in progress) One other thing---I've never liked passive crossovers at low frequencies. I could always hear a compromise in the low end impact. Steve has me sold on these toroidal inductor coils. He said he couldn't hear a difference between the elctronic xover on his Ashley and the passive xover with the toroids.I can't either. This is what opened a whole bunch of possibilities. I don't consider the 3010lf viable above--say--300hz---lots of BIG peaks and dips. But if we cross over low---lots of options.The toroids are really expensive. As are the metal cased non-inductive resistors we're using. But they sound better.

It will sound a bit better with the Ciare tweets.

Holy Moly--I expect my hearing to return in a few days. I'm pretty sure I was putting all of the Puma's 900 into it.Master up full, my Roscoe up full--just hittiing the overload lights on the input gain.

WOW.

The sound of the 45/85 at arena volume. Lows like I've NEVER heard.The only component beginning to complain were the Vifa tweets. But only a wee bit. Two Ciares---no prob.

I'm thinking of keeping the Pures as a modular setup. Have a pad switch on the 45 for use with one 110 sub---run it open into two subs or for more pronounced mids with one.

I think that the Flex sounds just as good---just different with a whole slew of options. But the low end is the same on both---and pretty scary.

I have wood cut out for two 110 subs--they'll be done next week.They are identical to the lower half of the 110 Flex's.

Size of the subs are 26 wide. x 13 high by 14 deep.
Likely around 30#

If you've looked into an outboard dsp module, or a dsp amp, with these cabs en lieu of a passive crossover inside the cabs, I'd be interested in hearing about the decision making process, differences in price and weight, and any audible differences if you have time to comment.

I'm not trying to "troll." I keep thinking these kinds of super cabs would be the perfect companion for dsp-quipped amps; something that's been on my mind since the introduction of the Bergantino IP cabs.

 

[5StringPocket]

Ha - Maybe you should market these under "Outlaw Sound". So, the 45 can hang with two 110 subs?

Alright! Shut down by the police. Mission accomplished!!!

Just played the two 110 subs and the 45 with some Steely Dan and some French remixes of Salif Keita stuff.

It retains the quality as a stereo of the 45's with the most beastly low end (especially on the remixes) I've ever heard.

 

[spiritbass]

I stopped going to some venues with massive sound systems because they butcher the world class artists sound.
And Mike, please wear hearing protection. I know some folks who are never getting their hearing back without the someday advances of stem cell research etc.

I don't go to many shows anymore, but I absolutely don't go without the old ear canal plugs. My son and I saw Dread Zeppelin a few years ago at the Blue Note in Columbia, MO. I felt sorry for all of the people getting their hearing damaged. It was by far, the loudest show I have ever attended. Ridiculous overkill. It would have sounded much better at 1/4 the SPL.

Sorry for the derail, back to the BigE channel...

 

[John D Harris]

I you've looked into an outboard dsp module, or a dsp amp, with these cabs en lieu of a passive crossover inside the cabs, I'd be interested in hearing about the decision making process, differences in price and weight, and any audible differences if you have time to comment.

I'm not trying to "troll." I keep thinking these kinds of super cabs would be the perfect companion for dsp-quipped amps; something that's been on my mind since the introduction of the Bergantino IP cabs.

They have discussed the possibility of making these powered somewhere in the future, I think mainly for PA applications that makes a lot of sense, as far as Bass guitar - with all the plethora of good-sounding micro amps, not sure there would be much of a market for powered cabs.

 

[zorf]

Hi Mike,

Where are crossing over from the 10 on the flex?
thx

 

[Mike Arnopol]

As far as working on a power amp and DSP----very high priority!!!

Working with a German manufacturer for a very high powered amp module with DSP. That's always been a goal for me Cool thing is that they also have class A/B power modules (still lightweight)with digital power supply, too. Problem is that it'll add a lot to the price. That's why we're working so hard to get the various models out there with passive xovers. We have to convince the public (and skeptics) of how much of a major advance these puppies are. I know that they're expensive--but we are using the best components out there and a boatload of labor to make 'em.

As far as xover frequency---I've gone out of my way to discuss the technology but at this point I'm feeling a bit proprietary about them. Let's just say that we've worked very hard to see how low the 6's canb go while retaining musicality and not subjecting them to undo stress at ultimate output .power. It was Steve who convinced me that they could be run much lower than conventional wisdom would dictate. Duke went over and over the designs and agreed that we were within a safe range.

So---they are crossed over pretty low on the 110Flexs, a bit higher on the 45 and a bit higher still on the 210Flex. I feel that that is one of the reasons that they sound so good.The Ciares are awesome mids but we'd be out of the ballpark pricewise. I really like the Faitals. From 200 to 8000hz I find them unbeatable. And the Eminence 3010LF---that;s really the foundation. It's the only 10 that goes low enough with a HUGE xmax and is still efficient. And neo.I'm starting to see other designs based on the 3010lf but I feel that this driver HAS to be crossed over pretty low.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Thanks, Mike!

 

[spiritbass]

I'm thinking that when Mike makes these DSP powered BigE's available, someone's going to set a Monique on top of one and achieve total sonic bliss...