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Big E speakers: Pt 2
- Thread starter Chef
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Some---frequency response, impedance, SPL, impulse response
We're now measuring at various power levels and distances
There are still a lot of things going on that are hard to quantify,
I didn't prompt them at all but both JGR and Tom noticed that the response of the low end had the focus of a sealed box and extension past that of a reflex box. The way the low end is presented is REALLY different. That doesn't reflect in frequency graphs.
We're now measuring at various power levels and distances
There are still a lot of things going on that are hard to quantify,
I didn't prompt them at all but both JGR and Tom noticed that the response of the low end had the focus of a sealed box and extension past that of a reflex box. The way the low end is presented is REALLY different. That doesn't reflect in frequency graphs.
- Jun 29, 2006
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- 3,214
- Disclosures
- President, CEO, CFO, CIO, Chief Engineer, Technician, Janitor - Reiner Amplification
Indeed - tight, punchy sealed response with no overhang, but with huge low frequency extension. Overall level is louder ~6 feet in front, and the low end (while maintaining overall tonal balance) drops off very little as you move farther away from the cab. It sounded the same in terms of both tone and level sitting close/in front of the cab as it did 25 feet away and off to the side in another part of my basement. If I had a wireless, I could probably walk upstairs and around the rest of the house and still hear things pretty clearly.
Measuring just a standard 1W/1m response would be selling the designs short. It will be cool to see the SPL at increasing distances from the cab at various power levels, as well as mid/high frequency response at various angles off axis. Stating the obvious, but it will illuminate a lot if the same measurements are taken with some conventional high performance cabs to get a baseline/point of reference. Comparing them will shed a lot of light on what the technology brings to the table.
It's cool to see how well the technology can/is being applied to different voicings with the various cab designs. I know rock tones, and the 110 Flex proto delivered beautifully, but at the same time isn't a one trick pony by any means. I think the 210 is going to be THE cab in the product line. Based on what the 110 was capable of, it will be one hell of a standalone. Two of them would be devastating.
Measuring just a standard 1W/1m response would be selling the designs short. It will be cool to see the SPL at increasing distances from the cab at various power levels, as well as mid/high frequency response at various angles off axis. Stating the obvious, but it will illuminate a lot if the same measurements are taken with some conventional high performance cabs to get a baseline/point of reference. Comparing them will shed a lot of light on what the technology brings to the table.
It's cool to see how well the technology can/is being applied to different voicings with the various cab designs. I know rock tones, and the 110 Flex proto delivered beautifully, but at the same time isn't a one trick pony by any means. I think the 210 is going to be THE cab in the product line. Based on what the 110 was capable of, it will be one hell of a standalone. Two of them would be devastating.
Yeah--that's how we see it. We're going to try to do some true half space measurements and having a crazy long boom so that we can get measurements at all sorts of distances.
I'm not disagreeing with Sea Monkey--we want to do all of the various measurements that we're capable of--and then maybe bring someone in to be as thorough as possible.
I'm not disagreeing with Sea Monkey--we want to do all of the various measurements that we're capable of--and then maybe bring someone in to be as thorough as possible.
- Jun 29, 2006
- 5,148
- 3,214
- Disclosures
- President, CEO, CFO, CIO, Chief Engineer, Technician, Janitor - Reiner Amplification
Mike, you're going to measure some conventional cabs as well? I think the comparison will be of the most benefit.
Yes, it does. But you have to know how to make them, and how to read them. I've been to the Big E forum, seen what they're doing, and they don't know how to measure speakers.
Gee---than I guess Duke LeJeaune doesn't either. (an obvious waste of his Clio measurement system)
We used his TC115 as a baseline and measured the MAS85. Our measurements coincided with Duke's. So at least for that measurement I feel that we were very close.
But the low end sounded VERY different. The MAS85 and TC115 were within 2 db of each other.
I'm getting a bit tired of this. I feel I have to respond to these nasty little comments here and there---there are people out there interested in the MAS speakers and I don't want to appear to be ducking questions and comments.
The MAS 110Flex has such a complicated crossover ( Duke was not involved in this one--Steve all the way) that it would have been impossible to design it without constantly going back and forth with measurements. If Steve doesn't know what he's doing than I want to follow his paradigm---the 110Flex is unlike any speaker I've played through. (in the best way)
Again---none of the top small designers out there provide measurements like we're being asked to do. We don't mind. Our technology is really different. And it sounds and functions very differently. And we're really trying to quantify it as well as we can. We WANT to be able to find ways to match what we are experiencing with objective data.
I have to be honest--I'm involved in producing speakers that--in my extensive experience--provide me with a really superior playing experience. As do the many others that own the speakers. As do the guys that have tried them, including some of the most informed guys in the biz.
I wish we had the funds lying around to pay someone to do all of the measurements that we'd like.It IS in our plans.
I just wish that the trolls out there could find an alternate form of entertainment.
Again--I'm offering a 2 week trial period. Plunk down the dough, measure away, and send it back.
We used his TC115 as a baseline and measured the MAS85. Our measurements coincided with Duke's. So at least for that measurement I feel that we were very close.
But the low end sounded VERY different. The MAS85 and TC115 were within 2 db of each other.
I'm getting a bit tired of this. I feel I have to respond to these nasty little comments here and there---there are people out there interested in the MAS speakers and I don't want to appear to be ducking questions and comments.
The MAS 110Flex has such a complicated crossover ( Duke was not involved in this one--Steve all the way) that it would have been impossible to design it without constantly going back and forth with measurements. If Steve doesn't know what he's doing than I want to follow his paradigm---the 110Flex is unlike any speaker I've played through. (in the best way)
Again---none of the top small designers out there provide measurements like we're being asked to do. We don't mind. Our technology is really different. And it sounds and functions very differently. And we're really trying to quantify it as well as we can. We WANT to be able to find ways to match what we are experiencing with objective data.
I have to be honest--I'm involved in producing speakers that--in my extensive experience--provide me with a really superior playing experience. As do the many others that own the speakers. As do the guys that have tried them, including some of the most informed guys in the biz.
I wish we had the funds lying around to pay someone to do all of the measurements that we'd like.It IS in our plans.
I just wish that the trolls out there could find an alternate form of entertainment.
Again--I'm offering a 2 week trial period. Plunk down the dough, measure away, and send it back.
I haven't seen a single boutique designer that provided anything other than modeled low frequency measurements. Even if they did---there is a LOT more going on in sound production than just frequency response.
Your 'patience gland' will emerge even stronger from the workout it is getting. All we can do is try to be at peace with each other. Shalom, brother.
No, it isn't. I got a look inside one and it's a bass reflex with cross firing speakers, very similar to the Yorkeville PSA1.
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The only different 'technology' is the reflecting gizmos that direct the sound from the back of the speakers into the ports. That seems like a good idea if you don't know how speakers work, but it's a really bad idea because the sound from the back of the speakers mixes with the sound from the front of the speakers at different phase angles depending on where the listener is. That's why they have so many peaks and valleys in the response, and why the frequency of those peaks and valleys change when you move around the room.
If you really did you'd have sent one of them as promised to the Sf pros who offered to measure them.
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So your contention is that Duke LeJeune, Leland Crooks etc don't know how speakers work? Or at least not as well as you?
Ok--I'm losing my patience
I don't have time for this crap. It isn't a reflex enclosure at all. If you read through this thread or had a modicum of intelligence you'd know. And if you ACTUALLY looked inside one you'd see.Your lack of knowledge or limited perceptive abilities suggest that you haven't.Again--(for the umteenth time)---a reflex port only reinforces the lowest octave. Then it's done.
The backwave in the MVW's comes out full frequency.That is the only way a Kappalite 3010LF will have the dynamic capabilities to compete with a 3015LF. Which is very easy to demonstrate that it does. Full range.That fact that a 210 MEASURES (SPL at 100hz) the equivalent of an SVT bears this out.
I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were sincere without a troll's agenda but that appears to not be the case. This stuff has been gone over ad nauseum. The only reason I'm not ignoring you is that there are guys that haven't read through the entire thread that might give some credence to your nonsensical ramblings.
We are working SOOO hard to be respectful and on the up and up. We haven't ducked any reasonable questions or discussions.
A few snide little comments by trolls with an obvious agenda without any willingness to research the facts can put what is a really cool new product in a negative light.Which is unfair.
Well enough of wasting my time.
I have to make some speakers and prepare for a pretty high level recording session.
likely unlike some annoying posters---I play bass for a living
Quote: but it's a really bad idea because the sound from the back of the speakers mixes with the sound from the front of the speakers at different phase angles depending on where the listener is. That's why they have so many peaks and valleys in the response, and why the frequency of those peaks and valleys change when you move around the room. End quote.
How strange, then, that the opposite is true with these cabs.
Both of mine sound more or less the same from every angle, and at every distance.
How strange, then, that the opposite is true with these cabs.
Both of mine sound more or less the same from every angle, and at every distance.
Just a reminder to all to not respond to troll posts. Instead, report them and let the moderators sort them out. It might take a little time, but it's always better to take the high road in cases like this.
Thanks, Chris--it's just that some that are first looking at this thread wouldn't know that it's a troll post. Which would unfairly cast things in a negative light. I welcome scepticism.
I've tried the high road.
I've tried the high road.
I understand. But I still want to encourage everyone to report troll posts rather than responding. Most people know a troll when they see one doing the age-old "I'm dancing just inside the letter of the law of the site rules while ompletely disregarding the intent of them, na na na na boo boo" dance. And when that happens, the person it reflects badly on is nobody other than..... wait for it.... the troll.
Oh, and since I'm here, I might as well mention that I've just been trying the Big E 4x5 for a review, and I found absolutely nothing that smacked of "out-of-phase-ness" or "peak-and-valley-ness" about them for double bass amplification. Whatever the specs or modelling or whatever might say, these speakers sound good to me. Specs are fine, but can lead to mail order bride syndrome IMO. Give me the real life "here's how this gear sounded on my gigs" experience over specs 100 times out of 100.
Oh, and since I'm here, I might as well mention that I've just been trying the Big E 4x5 for a review, and I found absolutely nothing that smacked of "out-of-phase-ness" or "peak-and-valley-ness" about them for double bass amplification. Whatever the specs or modelling or whatever might say, these speakers sound good to me. Specs are fine, but can lead to mail order bride syndrome IMO. Give me the real life "here's how this gear sounded on my gigs" experience over specs 100 times out of 100.
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