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Billie Jean

#41
wintremute said:
I'm not good at reading sheet music, so will someone please help me with this.

In the 2nd measure of the pre-chorus (measure 22), I think the first note is an F# (because the line it is on is an F, but the sharp sign on the same line back by the bass clef makes it an F#). Then the next note looks like it's an F, but it sounds like the lower octave for the F#.

What am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...

The sign in front of the last F in the measure is a "natural" sign. This indicates that you play an F natural instead of the F# that is indicated by the key signature. The natural only lasts until the bar line. Then in the next measure, you go back to F# as indicated in the key signature. It is totally normal for songs to contain notes outside the key signature; they are called "accidentals" (adding a sharp, flat, natural, double flat, or double sharp to override the key signature). A quick walk up ascending E-F-F# (also spelled E-E#-F#) is a very common funk/rock/blues riff.

I am answering your question about "how to read sheet music" and setting aside the question of "is the transcription correct."
 
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#42
wintremute said:
I'm not good at reading sheet music, so will someone please help me with this.

In the 2nd measure of the pre-chorus (measure 22), I think the first note is an F# (because the line it is on is an F, but the sharp sign on the same line back by the bass clef makes it an F#). Then the next note looks like it's an F, but it sounds like the lower octave for the F#.

What am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...
As a general rule, accidentals like the natural sign on the F in measure 21 apply only to the measure in which they appear. So the F natural that's written in measure 21 does not carry over to measure 22; the Fs in measure 22 reset to the key signature, which contains an F#.

Edit: @Mushroo replied while I was typing.
 
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#43
Mushroo said:
The sign in front of the last F in m. 22 is a "natural" sign. This indicates that you play an F natural instead of the F# that is indicated by the key signature. The natural only lasts until the bar line. Then in the next measure, you go back to F# as indicated in the key signature. It is totally normal for songs to contain notes outside the key signature; they are called "accidentals" (adding a sharp, flat, natural, double flat, or double sharp to override the key signature).

I am answering your question about "how to read sheet music" and setting aside the question of "is the transcription correct."
Click to expand...


Yes, let's ignore the validity of the transcription. I want to know if I'm reading the music (as written) correctly.

The way I read it, the pre-chorus starts in measure 21. The natural sign is in measure 21. So the notes in measure 21 are D, D, D, E, F.
Then we hit the bar sign, and are in measure 22 (so the natural sign ends). In measure 22 the notes are F#,F,F,A.
Is this correct?
 
#44
wintremute said:
Yes, let's ignore the validity of the transcription. I want to know if I'm reading the music (as written) correctly.

The way I read it, the pre-chorus starts in measure 21. The natural sign is in measure 21. So the notes in measure 21 are D, D, D, E, F.
Then we hit the bar sign, and are in measure 22 (so the natural sign ends). In measure 22 the notes are F#,F,F,A.
Is this correct?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I counted measures wrong and have edited my last post to be less confusing.

There are no accidental signs (sharps, flats, or naturals) written in m. 22, so all notes are as indicated by the key signature. This means all F's are F#.
 
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#45
wintremute said:
Yes, let's ignore the validity of the transcription. I want to know if I'm reading the music (as written) correctly.

The way I read it, the pre-chorus starts in measure 21. The natural sign is in measure 21. So the notes in measure 21 are D, D, D, E, F.
Then we hit the bar sign, and are in measure 22 (so the natural sign ends). In measure 22 the notes are F#,F,F,A.
Is this correct?
Click to expand...
A sharp or flat in the key signature applies to every octave, not just the octave where the sharp or flat appears in the key signature. So if there is an F# in the key signature, all Fs in every octave are sharp, unless there is an accidental that changes that.
 
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#46
Febs said:
A sharp or flat in the key signature applies to every octave, not just the octave where the sharp or flat appears in the key signature. So if there is an F# in the key signature, all Fs in every octave are sharp, unless there is an accidental that changes that.
Click to expand...

I did not know that. Thank you.
 
#51
Kim Heldorf said:
Hello everybody, im playing "billie jean" by Michael Jackson in my band, and im playing the main bass riff. But the problem is that everytime i had played the riff a few times, my fingers start to cramp. And i cant really do anything else than stop playing and start again when my fingers feel better. But do you have any ideas to what i can do so my fingers dosent cramp so much? Any tricks or any thing? Im open to it all.
Click to expand...

I've always played it on a 5 string - it's easy up the neck.
 
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#52
guy n. cognito said:
The answer to stamina issues on the money frets is more repetition and better technique. It is NEVER to insert a mechanical device to shortcut the issue.
Click to expand...
I use a capo on a couple songs anyways because I tune DGCF and it's a beach to play those without the "right" open strings available. "Roadhouse Blues" is one - "ouch!" without the capo :( .

A bonus is that it freaks out the Guitards :cool:
 
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#54
bass12 said:
It definitely sounds like synth playing the low notes in the song's intro (on the first beat and on the second eighth of the second beat of each bar).
Click to expand...
The tonic note F# is doubled with the kind of distorted synth.
bass12 said:
In the verses it sounds as if synth takes over completely, with bass guitar coming back for the bridges.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are correct.

lj2.PNG

Thriller




I wanted to say that the basic riff was played on Yamaha DX-7 tone, but...

--------------------------------------
Here are the keyboards used to record Thriller.
Yamaha CS-80
Roland Jupiter 8 (x3)
NED Synclavier II
DK Synergy
Roland Jupiter 4
Roland MC-4 microcomposer/sequencer
Yamaha GS-1 FM synth
Oberheim Four-Voice
SCI Prophet 5 (x2)
Yamaha CE20 FM preset synth
Yamaha portasound keyboard
Roland VP-330 vocoder/strings
Bode Vocoder
E-mu Emulator I
plus a couple of Minimoogs.
-------------------------------------


Here is what Bill Wolfer said about recording Thriller:

"I used a CS80 to play the chords that move against the bass line on Bille Jean. The bass part was already there when I recorded, so I can't say who played it (I'd guess Phillangaines) or what synth it was. Sounds like a Minimoog to me. I can't believe it's been 25 years. Wow."
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
------------------------------------------------
Now, here is an interview with Alex Al:

"Who decided what bass or keyboard you played on each song?

That was my job: to find out what was going to work best. Again, my approach was: let’s preserve what’s on the record and make it better. I’d listen to the Jackson 5 records and have my Fenders ready. I called Greg Phillinganes to find out what synth sound he used on “Thriller”; he’d say, “A Minimoog with two oscillators instead of three,” and so on. Every night at home I’d do at least an hour of programming to get the right keyboard sounds. Also, because bass and synth bass together were a key part of Michael’s sound, there were even sections of “Wanna Be Startin’ Something” and “Billie Jean” that I was playing bass and Minimoog together! I’d turn up my bass volume and really dig in with my left hand, hammering the notes, like on upright, while playing keyboard with my right hand."

Men in the Mirror: The Bassists of Michael Jackson How Alex Al And His Predecessors Pumped Up The King Of Pop

----------------------------------------------------------


Let's take a look how superb R.I.P. Louis Johnson tries to play that riff without those overdubs on the bass and keyboards.
The Thriller riff starts around 1:08 after a magnificent slap intro by the Master.
Mr. Johnson plays that low note with his thumb (right hand) on the 5-stringer.



Here is more discussion about Billie Jean at TB.
Micheal Jackson's Billie Jean Bass tone question.
 

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#55
I've just wanted to mention one interesting thing from my previously posted a superb bass player, Louis Johnson's (R.I.P.) video.
Mr. Johnson starts his Billie Jean riff at around 110/111BPM, but at the end, the band's tempo is around 119/120BPM, but...
I don't have any issues with the songs GROOVE.
To sum up.
Groove is not equal perfect timing.
 
#60
Roxbororob said:
"look how superb R.I.P. Louis Johnson tries to play that riff without those overdubs"

"Superb" fits, "tries" doesnt (just sayin).
Thx for the video.
Click to expand...



"Superb" - it's about Mr. Louis Johnson (R.I.P.)
"Tries" - It's a verb used by ME to express the following:
1. ) It's only one (1) bass guitar without overdubbing the bass guitar and without ANY synth added to "strengthen its power" in order to, MAYBE, get closer to that sound of the studio version of Billie Jean.
2. ) Playing - just JAMMING - with completely new musicians in a new environment.
3. ) ....
In the video, the singers are Trying to sing, the guitar player is trying to play the guitar part from the song, etc...
Michael said, Try this bass, now try that bass, now try a different bass, etc.., now try one more mix, try one more...., totalling 91 mix trials.
Now, I can specifically indicate spots were the bass line was not perfect in that video, but

P.S. This morning, I listened to our TB members' recordings and felt SO GOOD, so positive, but after reading your comment, ...
TB - a beautiful place where the true big egos can strive.
 
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