Just out of curiosity from an orchestral perspective, what does he like about them?
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Just out of curiosity from an orchestral perspective, what does he like about them?
He admitted They wouldn’t let him play them in the orchestra.
Other than that- the same I love about them. Power, beautiful and very lively and modulable sound both pizz and Arco, once you get past the obnoxious play-in period. Long-lasting when not taken off and on again.
Worn in, they actually do sound rather similar to Eudoxa. Though not quite as fat in thumb position.
Best
Sidecar
1) John Feeney talks about playing gut strings here;
2) I'm strictly an amateur, but I swapped the Eudoxas for (first) Jargar dolces and now Dominant solos tuned down to orchestra pitch. The Dominants that way are a very satisfying alternative at my level of playing.
2) I'm strictly an amateur, but I swapped the Eudoxas for (first) Jargar dolces and now Dominant solos tuned down to orchestra pitch. The Dominants that way are a very satisfying alternative at my level of playing.
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In fact, yes. They have settled in. They do occasionally detune, but nothing spectacular. They are the first string for me to actually get sharp sometimes (must be the gut core).
They have stabilized in sound as well, and my initial "gut feeling" (no pun intended) that the sound of Eudoxas is what Thomastik is aiming at when they market their Dominants as "similar to gut without the disadvantages", seems to be accurate, at least on my bass and to my ear. They (Thomastik) are not really 100% getting there, Eudoxas still produce more fundamental than Dominants or any other string I have tried before, across the whole range of the instrument. And they have all the sustain and growl one could need, when needed.
In the meantime, I played some rehearsals and gigs in a variety of rooms with them. The sound on the job was- absolutely appalling, but that was not the strings' fault. The band is kind of alt-country, singer/songwriter stuff with vibes, acoustic guitar, and drums, and the sound dude gave it the RAWK-treatment, requiring me to turn up way too much to feel comfortable. You know, that weird feeling when you play an acoustic instrument but at the same time, all you can hear is the sound coming from the FOH speakers, because everything gets blown out of proportion? Well, the FOH sound actually was quite nice, but it just felt all too weird. I have never really understood the term of strings "amplifying well/not well", and I still don't really get it, I like the sound I am getting from the amp. Same characteristics as the acoustic sound, sweeter and tamer mid-range than Dominants, and not so many overtones, in favor of huge fundamental.
I have some more acoustic shows coming up, duets with piano and such, plus the mentioned band is going to play in some better situations soon, that'll be the real deal.
I still do dig the Eudoxa sound and feel very much, both pizz and arco, I'll post some clips soon-ish. It's addictive and inspiring, and I really have a newfound joy in practicing and just marveling at the tone. I really like the way they respond to bad habits with the bow- quite different than Dominants, they are much more telling on bow angle sloppiness for example. The sound just gets thin and nasal as soon as you're not 90 degrees (give-and-take) to the string. The approach to bowing with them has to be slightly different as well- but then again I feel that transferring this for me new way and feel of playing arco is beneficial on other basses with other strings as well. Kind of let the string drive the bow (I remember Damon Smith saying something like that), instead of vice versa. They don't need much bow weight at all, and they are really dynamic and responsive.
The D string is the weakest of the four, volume-wise, when bowing, but that's easy to cure while playing. That seems to be common for gut strings as well, I remember reading that multiple times elsewhere.
Keepers. Gorgeous strings. Damn.
Best
Sidecar
Said the gut newbie just before it started to rain... Humidity changes that actually do mean something, that's new- but well, it's been reported and is well known, how foolish of me to think it'd never happen here.
Best
Sidecar
Update almost 2 months in:
I realize 2 months is nothing (especially for the kind of money you have to drop for them), so I'll ask myself again in 10 months or so. But: I still love them. The most consistently dry and warm summer I can recall at all may help here, but they are really stable now, occasionally detuning either up or down a quartertone. They sound beautiful and fat, pizzicato they sustain really well and growl nicely without the slightest hint of harshness or metallicness. Bowing them can be a little challenging, the right amount of rosin (not too much) seems to be absolutely crucial. Once you've gotten the hang of them, they allow for lots and lots of colors and are really shiny brilliant without being brittle. They do seem to respond a tad bit slower, but that might very well be me playing them worse than I should.
In band situations, they fill the low end forcefully and with authority, putting the bass in its own territory very nicely. Although that can make it a little harder to hear yourself than f.ex. Spiros or Dominants, the colleagues and listeners seem overall very pleased.
Oh, and no D-string weakness anymore. I tuned my afterlengths a little better (precisely or close to two octaves plus a 4th- I would love to get it more precise but that's impossible without modifying my tailpiece), that might have something to do with this.
Acoustic jazz-pop gig in a church-like room up tomorrow, I'm excited.
Best
Sidecar
I realize 2 months is nothing (especially for the kind of money you have to drop for them), so I'll ask myself again in 10 months or so. But: I still love them. The most consistently dry and warm summer I can recall at all may help here, but they are really stable now, occasionally detuning either up or down a quartertone. They sound beautiful and fat, pizzicato they sustain really well and growl nicely without the slightest hint of harshness or metallicness. Bowing them can be a little challenging, the right amount of rosin (not too much) seems to be absolutely crucial. Once you've gotten the hang of them, they allow for lots and lots of colors and are really shiny brilliant without being brittle. They do seem to respond a tad bit slower, but that might very well be me playing them worse than I should.
In band situations, they fill the low end forcefully and with authority, putting the bass in its own territory very nicely. Although that can make it a little harder to hear yourself than f.ex. Spiros or Dominants, the colleagues and listeners seem overall very pleased.
Oh, and no D-string weakness anymore. I tuned my afterlengths a little better (precisely or close to two octaves plus a 4th- I would love to get it more precise but that's impossible without modifying my tailpiece), that might have something to do with this.
Acoustic jazz-pop gig in a church-like room up tomorrow, I'm excited.
Best
Sidecar
**THREAD DERAIL**
Hi Louis,
What do you like about the Dominant solos over the Jargar dolces?
-Jeff
Hi Louis,
What do you like about the Dominant solos over the Jargar dolces?
-Jeff
Wow, the hard ones first.
For me the big problem with the Eudoxas was pitch stability. If I went to three different halls in a week I'd have three different issues and it just got frustrating. I'm sure they'd settle down eventually but I was getting too many looks for stand partners!
I had the solo dominants originally on my Tyrolean bass and they were ok - loud but just ok; took them off and put a set of Jargar Dolce on that bass and it seemed a happy match - dark, warm, bloomy-Italian old school orchestra sound. The problem is the Dolces (at least on that bass) don't seem very loud, although people tell me otherwise.
The Jargars had been on the small Andrea Spada bass before I put the Eudoxas on. They had been fine, but I felt a little too dark (and again quiet) for what I felt was the bass's potential.
The solo Dominant on that bass are not only loud, but also warm, full, focused and pizz very well (Jargars aren't great pizz strings); the lower strings are particularly resonant and satisfying there.
In general I think of the Dolces as orchestra strings than can also be solo strings, and Doms as solo strings that can also be orchestra strings: the Jargars are rounder, warmer, again, "bloomy-er"; the Dominants louder, more focused, clearer.
Of course this may apply only to these two basses. I hope it helps.
Louis
For me the big problem with the Eudoxas was pitch stability. If I went to three different halls in a week I'd have three different issues and it just got frustrating. I'm sure they'd settle down eventually but I was getting too many looks for stand partners!
I had the solo dominants originally on my Tyrolean bass and they were ok - loud but just ok; took them off and put a set of Jargar Dolce on that bass and it seemed a happy match - dark, warm, bloomy-Italian old school orchestra sound. The problem is the Dolces (at least on that bass) don't seem very loud, although people tell me otherwise.
The Jargars had been on the small Andrea Spada bass before I put the Eudoxas on. They had been fine, but I felt a little too dark (and again quiet) for what I felt was the bass's potential.
The solo Dominant on that bass are not only loud, but also warm, full, focused and pizz very well (Jargars aren't great pizz strings); the lower strings are particularly resonant and satisfying there.
In general I think of the Dolces as orchestra strings than can also be solo strings, and Doms as solo strings that can also be orchestra strings: the Jargars are rounder, warmer, again, "bloomy-er"; the Dominants louder, more focused, clearer.
Of course this may apply only to these two basses. I hope it helps.
Louis
Update.
The longest really warm period I can recall lies behind us now, and that’s certainly good for my bass. It felt really tense in summer, but is well loosening up now again.
As for the Eudoxas- they are great. Holding pitch nicely now and phenomenal arco sound. Pizz is still great as well, they still sustain very well and the E string growls beautifully without any metallic harshness in the overtones. They are loud and clear and feel great as well.
Of course it’s still only been 4 months. If this is going to be be their sound after 18 or 24 months, I’ll be amazed.
Best
Sidecar
The longest really warm period I can recall lies behind us now, and that’s certainly good for my bass. It felt really tense in summer, but is well loosening up now again.
As for the Eudoxas- they are great. Holding pitch nicely now and phenomenal arco sound. Pizz is still great as well, they still sustain very well and the E string growls beautifully without any metallic harshness in the overtones. They are loud and clear and feel great as well.
Of course it’s still only been 4 months. If this is going to be be their sound after 18 or 24 months, I’ll be amazed.
Best
Sidecar
Yes, probably.
Recording myself is just not my strong shoe really... I know I should do it more often.
As for the strings, upon closer inspection, the pizz has mellowed considerably when compared to the older recordings further up the thread. Sustain has gotten shorter and fatness has gotten fatter. That is not necessarily a bad thing. They have a real nice bounce to their pizz sound and feel now. I’m still in the process of finding out if I miss the Dominants’ seemingly imperceptible aging process too much. Eudoxas age, or should I say mature, much more obviously...
Also it’s tough to predict what comes next, as they really seem to react much more lively to humidity changes (naturally). Not so much in pitch stability but also in Sound, it seems.
The experiment continues.
Best
Sidecar
Ok (sigh),
you asked for it. Here's a little something pizzicato from about an hour ago.
Audiophile technology has been used in the production of this highly significant recording (iPhone). Pardon the grunting.
Life is a two-way whammy - so what am I playing?
Eudoxa pizz example- guess.mp3
Best
Sidecar
you asked for it. Here's a little something pizzicato from about an hour ago.
Audiophile technology has been used in the production of this highly significant recording (iPhone). Pardon the grunting.
Life is a two-way whammy - so what am I playing?
Eudoxa pizz example- guess.mp3
Best
Sidecar
Thank you!
I just listened to the recording for the first time on good speakers 10 minutes ago, and I'm surprised at how well an iPhone records. Distance was about arm-length, phone laying on a music stand at a little lower than breast height.
And in any case what I'm playing marks what feels like the end of a horrible composer's block period. More on that in due time.
Best
Sidecar
I just listened to the recording for the first time on good speakers 10 minutes ago, and I'm surprised at how well an iPhone records. Distance was about arm-length, phone laying on a music stand at a little lower than breast height.
And in any case what I'm playing marks what feels like the end of a horrible composer's block period. More on that in due time.
Best
Sidecar
Another update-
I have had the great chance recently to go back and forth between well-aged Dominants on a music school Strunal hybrid, equally well-aged Dominants on another music school ply, and my old carved with the Eudoxas on.
The first impression on playing the Dominants arco was- boy do they bow easily!! They respond super-fast - and may I add, considerably faster than Eudoxas - and feel really grabby under the bow compared to Eudoxas. While the latter have a very distinct sweetness on slower tempos that is unlike anything I know (and very beautiful), they are much tougher to get to sound good on faster detaché stuff (at least for me). The Dominants positively feel like fail-proof orchestra strings (as easy as Belcanto, but with more complexity and more tonal possibilities). Might be that all the practice time with the bow plays a part as well. Whatever part of this can be attributed to the basses I don't really know- but the Dominants feel exactly like I remember them on mine before the last repair. (You know -when it's virtually impossible to not start a note perfectly with the bow.)
Pizzicato, the Dominants on both music school basses are beyond well-done. I would call them dull. So that's no competition for the Eudoxas there. "The Queen" still sounds totally Queen-like pizz.
But I really think this is tough to swallow. Ages-old Dominants on rather uninteresting basses are easier to bow than "The Queen Of Double Bass Strings" on my really nice bass. I really cannot think that this is cool.
One way of getting grey hair at least...
Best
Sidecar
I have had the great chance recently to go back and forth between well-aged Dominants on a music school Strunal hybrid, equally well-aged Dominants on another music school ply, and my old carved with the Eudoxas on.
The first impression on playing the Dominants arco was- boy do they bow easily!! They respond super-fast - and may I add, considerably faster than Eudoxas - and feel really grabby under the bow compared to Eudoxas. While the latter have a very distinct sweetness on slower tempos that is unlike anything I know (and very beautiful), they are much tougher to get to sound good on faster detaché stuff (at least for me). The Dominants positively feel like fail-proof orchestra strings (as easy as Belcanto, but with more complexity and more tonal possibilities). Might be that all the practice time with the bow plays a part as well. Whatever part of this can be attributed to the basses I don't really know- but the Dominants feel exactly like I remember them on mine before the last repair. (You know -when it's virtually impossible to not start a note perfectly with the bow.)
Pizzicato, the Dominants on both music school basses are beyond well-done. I would call them dull. So that's no competition for the Eudoxas there. "The Queen" still sounds totally Queen-like pizz.
But I really think this is tough to swallow. Ages-old Dominants on rather uninteresting basses are easier to bow than "The Queen Of Double Bass Strings" on my really nice bass. I really cannot think that this is cool.
One way of getting grey hair at least...
Best
Sidecar
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It will depend on what you need your bass for then... and what you’re willing to deal with. I would stick with the eudoxas for their full life span before deciding...
It’s been a few months now. Any winding issues?
None at all. All looks and feels perfect, no buzzing.
And yes, I will keep the Eudoxas for as long as possible.
Best
Sidecar
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