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BL vs democracy

Interesting, many of your "BL's" seem to be half manager half and half bandmate.

From what I have gathered there are 3 stances on this subject:

A: people who think they should be leader
B: people who want to be led
C: people who want equal say all around

Then the rest of us who aren't partial either way ;)

Thanks for all the feedback!
 
I see a lot of talk about band leaders but rarely hear about a "democratic band."

What is the reason for that? It's easier/ simpler when the group is following one persons vision/ direction?

I have always wanted to be part of an equal group of multi instrumentalists so we could freely switch roles and experiment.

Ideally a good BL is always open for input and will often ask for it, but they reserve the right to veto anything that strays too far outside their vision, but to be successful long term they need to temper that attitude so as to not make members feel marginalized when their ideas fail to dovetail with the BL's specific goals. A good BL needs to perfect the art of an iron hand in a velvet glove.

OTOH, a purely democratic band can only work if there is first and foremost an abundence of individual skill, closely followed by a vision all members share with no reservations or desire to tweak to better reflect their role as an individual rather than an intregal pece of the whole.

The other thing i've seen in my musical journey is bands under the guidence of a successful BL are generally more productive both in terms of output and income. When you have a designated HMFIC things like personnel changes and work schedules are more routine and less traumatic, giving the group a quicker recovery when a replacement member is required. There is also a lot to be said for the importance of a tie breaker should a bad find itself equally at odds among it's members.

Strictly a personal opinion but there are no bad options between BL or a more dmocratic approach. The only problem with either model is the wildcard of individual personalties.
 
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To me it depends on the type of music you're playing and the (commercial) environment it is played in. I've been in bands with a very business like organization- and leadership model, and it worked great, because it was a rigidly set show with predetermined music to the smallest detail, sold at set prices. On the other hand, most gigs that i play nowadays are with a class of musicians who are not going to submit to a leader just because. Even when you hire/pay them, it does not necessarily mean that you get to decide what and how they play - you hire them because of the individuality they bring to a piece of music. Most of that music is completely improvised, the quality of the music the direct result of the quality of the democratic (as in: leaderless) interaction and instantaneous decision making, all going on on stage, in real time, with the audience completely connected with that process, when it's done right (which isn't always the case, of course). It can be the best thing ever, and also deeply confrontational (with oneself, for starters). I'm loving it.
 
I see a lot of talk about band leaders but rarely hear about a "democratic band."

What is the reason for that? It's easier/ simpler when the group is following one persons vision/ direction?

I have always wanted to be part of an equal group of multi instrumentalists so we could freely switch roles and experiment.
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What could be called a democratic band was my full-time job for ten years. Nine members. The way it worked was that admin tasks were divided, as was the music--just about everyone became a producer of some pieces, depending on skill level. Sometimes, developing someone's skills was part of the assignment.

The trick was having an annually-elected subgroup of three people to handle the three areas of: rehearsal planning, communications/marketing, and music selection. As long as you can trust that everyone wants the same things, and that they are doing their best, then it can work. But, the idea of the band needs to supersede the idea of individual ambition.
 
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My band is a band of friends, 3 of us we are friend since highschool days, almost 20 years ago, so we function mostly as an unperfect democracy. We started like 5/6 years ago, only the singer/guitar-player really knew how to play, and had been in bands before. Therefore, at that time he had to lead the band for obvious reasons: he was the only one capable of making music to some extent. As time went by the rest of us were improving and catching up with him. Now we are all at similar levels in most regards, and we try to be as democratic as a band can be: we voted on band's name, we vote on the set lists... and many decissions are taken by general consensus, after chatting with a couple of drinks after rehearsals. Now we all shared a similar vision about most of the things related with the band, and know what each other likes, dislikes, disposition, etc... so agreements are not difficult to reach.

HOWEVER, we were 5 guys until a month ago, and now we are just 4 guys. One of us left the band a due to a series of issues between him and the rest of us, that were carried out over a couple of years and ended up with us pushing him to take the decision of leaving. It was him who decided to leave. We never fired him. But we wanted him leaving and pushed him into doing so. It was a dictatorship of 4 against one at that point (I guess that is still a democracy, right?).
In our discard I have to say that: 1) In 5 years he was not able to learn how to play an instrument (which was hindering our performance as a music band). 2) In the last year and a half rehearsing the same bunch of songs every week, he did not learn a single one (he used to show up before our gigs carrying pieces of paper with the chords of each song and "study" between sound check and gig). 3) In his last 6 months whithin the band he showed up to only 5 or 6 rehearsals (but he came to every gig... in the condition aforementioned: not knowing the songs). 4) he started or joined like 3 or 4 paralel projects during the last year (surprisingly, he was able to learn the songs for those acts. This is when I reallized the reason why he wasn't learning our songs was not for his incompetence, which I would forgive, but his lack of interest. That really made me upset. I was spending my time working on our sets while he was just putting our performance down because he did not like it enough to learn it). 5) While our drummer was abroad because of his job, he got 2 gigs for us; then hired a replacement drummer for those gigs and sent a message to our drummer saying his position in the band was taken (without any one else's knowledge)... 6) he decided to join some bass clases that were scheduled at the same time we have set our rehearsals (he holded a guitar during our gigs, but played the bass in some of his side-projects... I started to suspect that, in the same way he tried to fire the drummer, he could be planning a future in which he was replacing me as the bass player of our band)... the list goes on and on... we lived with this situation for so long just because we were friends. In any other band he would have been fired long ago.
Good news is, we are still friends with him. All of us knew how to separate what was going on inside the band with the real life outside de group. He is a mess but not a bad guy. Our musical visions were different, and our friendship made us force the situation inside the band too much before deciding to split ways.

Point is: I guess that a band can work as a democracy while all his members share the level of interest on the project. When someone is not sharing the band's vision, it can not work together.
 
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As long as you can trust that everyone wants the same things, and that they are doing their best, then it can work.

Yep, that's the rare missing ingredient in all the "democratic" bands I've been in.

One huge hurdle to solidarity is song selection. I completely removed this factor from my band by carefully researching what audiences and clients/venue owners want played at the clubs and events we were targeting. No more arguments about song selection, because no one in the band is picking our playlist. Our target audience picks the songs. No band disagreements, 100% client/audience satisfaction.

I can't tell you how much more rewarding and refreshing it is to be playing almost all our songs for the vast majority of the people in the room instead of just someone's wife or high school buddy. Playing for one little table of familiars at the expense of the other 90% of the room used to drive me crazy.
 
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One huge hurdle to solidarity is song selection. I completely removed this factor from my band by carefully researching what audiences and clients/venue owners want played at the clubs and events we were targeting. No more arguments about song selection, because no one in the band is picking our playlist. Our target audience picks the songs. No band disagreements, 100% client/audience satisfaction.

Can you please explain how you went about that?
 
If you've ever been in a band that is supposed to be a true democracy, except that everyone secretly considers themselves smarter than the rest and tries to fill the leadership vacuum, only to find they are all doing the same thing, and worse, none of their ideas are consistent or compatible and then the power plays, animosity, and misunderstandings fester until people can't stand each other any longer, then you would instantly be able to relate to those who would prefer a designated, talented, and trusted leader who has (or recognizes) the best answers to the big questions, gets the last word, and has a concept/format/angle to help ensure success for the booking entity, audience, and band members.

Unfortunately, I've wasted my time in that kind of "democracy" once too often.

If you haven't, consider yourself most fortunate.

I haven't experienced that. In my case, though, I am lucky in band situations but often not so lucky in other ways.
 
Scenario: I have two bands. One is my project, I'm the BL, I write everything, record most of it all, book everything and the cost is all out of my pocket. It's great but also a lot of work and huge emotional commitment.
The other band, the BL is 10+ years older than me, I show up and play my parts, pay for nothing, plan nothing, have few worries and otherwise just get to be on stage having fun.
Best of both worlds.

It reminds me of Hendrix. Sometimes after a show he would drop in unannounced at a night club and just play (often bass) just for fun.
 
Can you please explain how you went about that?

We had a specific target clientele (private events and select public venues) to which we wanted to appeal and be competitive. We wanted these gigs because the facilities tend to be nicer, better, and more predictable, as do the audiences and money. These events and venues have a majority of mainstream pop audiences/guests/patrons. They want dance party hit standards and singalongs from all genres and eras. There is a playlist that best appeals to this kind of client and their guests. It can be found by researching the playlists of DJ's and bands that have had success in these environments. Once you print out these lists, you see obvious trends and patterns develop. There is little room for debate.

If you want to get into a room that can be hard to break into, study the playlists of the bands that have done it. You'll see some trends, and though you don't need to be a direct copy of any other band, you can capture the spirit of what they have accomplished, and why they appeal to the patrons and get asked back regularly.

It's very similar to the market research a business does. And my band is run like a business. We put the client/audience (customer) first and our main concern is being good entertainers. We're not out to make artistic statements with the music. That's already been firmly established by the bands that have made the hit recordings and the people who still like them. Our only creativity is in our presentation and audience interaction.

Every musician I brought into this project had this format and goal explained up front and came in with eyes wide open, on the same page. Everything we do is firmly understood and accepted up front, there is no time wasted on debate, including how closely we imitate the chosen arrangement of the recordings. We all know when we're all on the infield as we should be, and when the song still needs work. No unpleasant surprises, just a lot of hard work behind the scenes, a lot of fun during the performances, and the classic win-win-win (client-audience-band). We like bright lights, clean rooms, and packed dance floors. And money.

This strategy not only applies to cover bands, but I think any band that wants commercial success will do the research and learn how to market and position themselves advantageously. My market is very competitive in originals, covers, and all points in between, even at the weekend hobby level.
 
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I see a lot of talk about band leaders but rarely hear about a "democratic band."

What is the reason for that? It's easier/ simpler when the group is following one persons vision/ direction?

I have always wanted to be part of an equal group of multi instrumentalists so we could freely switch roles and experiment.

The ideal group is where everyone gets along, pulls their weight, shares equally in the work that is drudgerous to some, and where there is no leader. Research shows that "shared leadership" is the the most effective form of team leadership. I truly believe that, and try to live that in my life all the time, at work, etcetera, and in the bands I perform with.

But unfortunately, my experience over the last 15 years shows that musicians in general (so far in my life) have not brought the necessary requirements to make shared leadership a feasible reality. Should I have strong evidence that has changed, I'm more than willing to try a shared leadership model again.

But musicians are notorious for wanting to control the repertoire, play in 5 bands that cause scheduling conflicts with the band I am part of, and not contribute to the sales and marketing of the group. All this, in my experience, tends to fall on one person -- myself. Others demand higher and higher rates of pay and gripe or laugh at me if I call with a gig that pays less than they think it should. And through strategic marketing, I delivered, increasing the pay over the last few years to higher than going rates in our town, regularly.

But they still quote that one gig where they got outrageous money for doing very little as though it was standard fare. All while my personal skills atrophy as a musician because I am so busy managing and selling and promoting. One musician even had the gall to try to fire me from the group I started, and for which I had booked 13 gigs over two months over displeasure with my musicianship. I had found the musicians, and booked the only paying gigs we had on the books. Also bothersome was when I would send an email indicating I wanted to spend $X on marketing materials, no one would answer me. The message was that no one was willing to fund the cost out of our gig money. So, I ended up paying it and hoping they would agree to give it back to me after the gigs materialized.

So, while I was more than willing to engage in shared leadership, and democratic processes, I found I ended up being a lackey for the band. The "band leader as doormat" model, as I call it. I had to do all the hard work, while the star musicians in the band dictated repertoire, insisted on "custom" songs that are not standards, made me play stuff I hated (something I don't mind if I also get some of my own songs on the repertoire) are hard to sub, and not charted. Making it hard for me to sub them when they were not available or picky about the gig. When that musician tried to fire me from my own band, in spite of my doing all the hard work, THAT CHANGED ME. I no longer believed that shared leadership, the prized ideal would work with this particular set of musicians in this town.

So, I have gone to a new model where I apply business principles to level the playing field. I try to balance my own needs and those of the musicians.

I seek input but retain control over the final decision when it comes to repertoire. I give criteria for songs (simple structure, well known, easily subbed, Real booked) and ask for suggestions. Songs that don't fit the criteria we don't do, because I don't want to have to invest a night orienting a new player when these musicians are busy with other bands.

My life is so much easier now when I sub a musician. I just send the sub charts and they say "no problem, these are easy". Often I send no charts at all because they are all in the real book -- another criterion to make my life easier. Every now and then I ask the band for "vanity tunes", where we can play something they are passionate about that is not charted, non standard or hard to sub. But only now that we have 4 hours of easy songs I can sub players into. We are not dependent on the vanity tunes for repertoire.

I give musicians gigs based on attitude and their willingness to help me book gigs. There are first and second and third and fourth call musicians, and the call is based primarily on gig booking willingness and past gigs booked. If someone is a killer player, but just wants to show up, play, get paid, and go home, they fall down in the depth chart.

I increased the supply of musicians in my town by forming a B-level band with people who are willing to go out for those gigs with non-profits that truly can't afford to pay full market rates. Suddenly the guys who were picky about pay find themselves sitting at home while B-level musicians get better and better, eventually capable of doing high level gigs -- and they get them if they book them or refer me to the client to close the deal.

And then, much to my surprise, these A-level musicians tell me they are playing in other bands for 1/2 of what I am paying them in my own groups -- pay that they said previously was too low for them and that they wouldn't accept. And they are sitting at home.

If they had've just shared in the work, and worked to make our band a success, we'd all be working hard for the success of our band. But no, they join competing bands and blame me for not having enough gigs...hence my harder edged approach above. One time, myself and a competing band were quoting on the same gig with the same style of music!! And one of the musicians in my band was the leader of the band against which I was quoting!!! Talk about peeing in the pool.

At one time, and maybe even now, it was taboo for a BL to refer to "my band". I'm going to own it now. These are MY BANDS with input from the other musicians now. And the only reason it's that way is that the musicians couldn't operate on a shared leadership model that was fair to me and allowed me to feel it was "our band". Had they shared in the work, taken those non-profit and community gigs when our schedule wasn't full, been less egocentric about the music we played, more inclusive of music I wanted to do, and responsive when I asked about business issues (like expenses for marketing materials) we would have one band and a depth chart we use only in emergencies, not based on gigs booked.

So, things have reversed now. I have four bands in which I perform, and they are as busy as I want, sometimes too much. Most of the other guys have sparse gigging schedules. And they treat me way better now. Even in the shared leadership band (still exists), the old culture of "band leader as doormat" is dying. They defer to me on so many things now.

And I consider it justice for the many, many years I was their doormat.. And by the way, I feel fulfilled as a musician now. My skills have progressed rapidly over the last year. I have an originals band. And there are times I don't take any pay at all to distribute it across the other musicians for their cooperativeness and good attitudes.

My regret, however, is that we can't have the shared leadership model. It would be better if we had the passion of everyone, true democracy, etcetera, but I just can't handle being the guy who does all the hard work and doesn't share in the fun. Such bands take high levels of interpersonal skills, shared ability across the band, and willingness to work hard at the difficult stuff. I wish that existed.
 
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We had a specific target clientele (private events and select public venues) to which we wanted to appeal and be competitive. We wanted these gigs because the facilities tend to be nicer, better, and more predictable, as do the audiences and money. These events and venues have a majority of mainstream pop audiences/guests/patrons. They want dance party hit standards and singalongs from all genres and eras. There is a playlist that best appeals to this kind of client and their guests. It can be found by researching the playlists of DJ's and bands that have had success in these environments. Once you print out these lists, you see obvious trends and patterns develop. There is little room for debate.

If you want to get into a room that can be hard to break into, study the playlists of the bands that have done it. You'll see some trends, and though you don't need to be a direct copy of any other band, you can capture the spirit of what they have accomplished, and why they appeal to the patrons and get asked back regularly.

It's very similar to the market research a business does. And my band is run like a business. We put the client/audience (customer) first and our main concern is being good entertainers. We're not out to make artistic statements with the music. That's already been firmly established by the bands that have made the hit recordings and the people who still like them. Our only creativity is in our presentation and audience interaction.

Every musician I brought into this project had this format and goal explained up front and came in with eyes wide open, on the same page. Everything we do is firmly understood and accepted up front, there is no time wasted on debate, including how closely we imitate the chosen arrangement of the recordings. We all know when we're all on the infield as we should be, and when the song still needs work. No unpleasant surprises, just a lot of hard work behind the scenes, a lot of fun during the performances, and the classic win-win-win (client-audience-band). We like bright lights, clean rooms, and packed dance floors. And money.

This strategy not only applies to cover bands, but I think any band that wants commercial success will do the research and learn how to market and position themselves advantageously. My market is very competitive in originals, covers, and all points in between, even at the weekend hobby level.

A much more scientific and thought through approach to what I believe I've always done but more so on gut instinct, and what you've written is IMO the definition of professionalism. Thank you for taking the time to respond and explain your approach.

So many of the "musicians" I've dealt with over the years just don't seem to realize that while what we're playing is music, what we're actually doing is creating and building a business. We're selling a product (entertainment) and quality control in all aspects of that product (sound quality, volume levels, songlist, stage appearance, etc etc) are critical components of how successful we are at marketing and building that product. If you want to be successful as a working musician at whatever level, IMO at pretty much any level, here is a great primer on how to go about it. Thanks again for sharing.
 
A much more scientific and thought through approach to what I believe I've always done but more so on gut instinct, and what you've written is IMO the definition of professionalism. Thank you for taking the time to respond and explain your approach.

So many of the "musicians" I've dealt with over the years just don't seem to realize that while what we're playing is music, what we're actually doing is creating and building a business. We're selling a product (entertainment) and quality control in all aspects of that product (sound quality, volume levels, songlist, stage appearance, etc etc) are critical components of how successful we are at marketing and building that product. If you want to be successful as a working musician at whatever level, IMO at pretty much any level, here is a great primer on how to go about it. Thanks again for sharing.

Spot on. Keywords bolded for emphasis. More bands need to make those words part of their vocabulary. My area is very competitive, and if you don't think of your band as a business around here, you face the reality of limited performance opportunities.

Look, I'll freely admit what I do on the weekends is a hobby. It doesn't pay my living expenses. It is supplemental income at best, and if I broke it down and calculated the hours, I'm making well under minimum wage at best.

But hobbies come in many forms. On the spectrum of, say, stamp collecting on one end, and flying an aircraft on the other end, putting yourself in front of a bunch of strangers and promising to entertain them is much closer to flying an aircraft as hobbies go. And for musicians, crashing and burning is almost just as painful, so I take every precaution against it. If that means taking charge and calling the shots, so be it. My band understands and they reap the rewards right along with me.

Therefore my approach does seem scientific, I agree. But there are countless ways to achieve the same end result of the win-win-win. I'm playing guitar for a female lead singer band leader. She picked songs that she likes, that she has internalized, and that she sings incredibly well. She doesn't do many mainstream pop standards, and she really didn't take a target audience into consideration, so her audience is going to have to discover, appreciate, target, and come to her. But she sings so well, and the songs are somewhat thematic and consistent, it is kind of mesmerizing. Her audience will find her quickly, but she still put thought into it with an eye on quality, consistency, and entertainment value. And even though she's a bit green, she's got a crack band of veterans behind her who firmly believe in her potential and what she's doing. She'll probably end up doing as well as my Top 40 Variety showcase band in her own way.
 
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Having played bass since 1984, I've been in bands, tried out for bands, gotten to know bands and band members... I've seen plenty - including variations on BL and democracy.

Generally, it seems to me that the best way for a band to operate is under a BL who always puts effort into knowing, listening to, and consulting band members fairly before making decisions unilaterally. Call it the Enlightened Dictator approach, if you like. Nobody goes ingored. The BL decides.
 
My band is named after the lead singer, and she has some recognition around this area, so that makes her the band leader by default. Her name, her reputation, her ship to steer. She also does all the bookings, scheduling, and promo, so as far as I'm concerned, our mandate is to do what she wants us to do.

But with that being said, we all bring ideas to the table and try them. We're partners and friends, we're adults, we've all been around the block musically, and we trust each others' instincts. Everybody's goal is to advance the band and make it as versatile a unit as possible. So although we technically have a "band leader," she doesn't exactly wield a gavel. She constantly solicits our input and makes sure that this is a shared experience. Everybody has ownership in it.

It works for us, but wouldn't necessarily work for others. Band dynamics are always unique and case-by-case.
 
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I can see how having a BL is more effective, but the clash of egos can be pretty awful between musicians.

In my main band, it's become a democracy. The drummer and vocalist founded the band, quickly recruited the guitarist and me a while after. We've cycled through a few second guitarists, but settled on a four-piece now. At the start, it was very much the drummer and vocalist's band, then the guitarist due to writing contributions. As we've known each other for longer, everything has evened out. The guitarist and I write more collaboratively, the drummer is the main gig booker and the vocalist does frontman stuff. The dynamics just work- Not getting a second guitarist in gave me a bigger role to play and allowed my voice to be heard, and our personalities seem to work together. Now we all know our places and what to focus on, we're writing more, better music than ever, booking more gigs and not arguing.

It's taken a long time to get to this point though. If we had a more defined band leader, I think it would have created resentments and caused us to break up, although there's a chance we might have been more productive earlier. It's all down to the kind of people you're working with- A democratic band full of people like me or our guitarist would get nowhere; we're not driven, organised people. Our drummer working under a band leader would get frustrated and quit.

I'd be open to working under a decent BL if I had another musical outlet, but I would need more expression than I think I could have in that sort of setup. I'd hate to be a band leader though, I'm just not organised enough to be left to book all the gigs and make everything happen.
 
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