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BL vs democracy
- Thread starter Sunset Shalom
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Hopkins
Commercial User
The way I see it is that most threads involving a BL is a thread in which they are complaining about said BL. I see absolutely ZERO reason for someone to be my boss in my hobby. Its a democracy or I am not interested
A benevolent dictatorship works best, in my opinion. Everyone in the group has input, but one person decides. If that person is wise in their decisions, and is willing to set themselves aside if need be, it works best. Any group needs one final voice.
In that case, shouldn't these people find another band? Or at the very least speak up to their BL and ask for change before leaving. A good BL will listen. Also bare in mind that people need to vent. It could be they are frustrated with a BL and make a thread but the rest of the time they are gigging and having a good time.
For many of us it's more serious than a hobby and are semi/professionals. I look at it like a sports team. I wouldn't expect a ball team to vote on positions and plays or else it would be chaos. If you want to "win" you need direction.
In my experience a democratic setup only really works if all members of the band think of themselves as leaders and think of each other as leaders; therefore are willing to give up petty differences in order to hear and respect all opinions in the group. Also, the more people you have in the group the harder this gets. My jazz trio has no band leader. Me and the pianist started the group together, recruited the drummer, but he is as much a leader as us two. We make decisions together. We also split responsibilities, and all contribute to booking gigs. But with larger groups it becomes a necessity to have a leader, otherwise nothing gets done.
Jesus, I can't imagine this happening. Quite funny.
I'll let my band know tomorrow that we have benevolent dictatorship and that I am that dictator.
Try to do a democracy as you put it however, many times when things need to be ironed out if it be between band members or clubs or performance issues I always heard the same thing "well it is your band" So now things like song suggestion are a group effort but, when "someone has to get this fixed" issues are my call.
I've learned two things from this thread. There are people who actually seem to prefer having a band leader. It's kind of hard to relate to that, but I can at least understand it. Also, I've learned that the U.S. is no longer in the Western Hemisphere for some reason.
I suppose it really depends on the chemistry of the group. My bands are like a hybrid of band leader but democratic decision making. The BL will have a certain vision in his head and we just talk out all the problems. Everyone is open to suggestions and no ones feelings get hurt. I'm sure it helps that we are a 3 piece in that regard. Also they are professional working musicians/engineers/producers so they have been there and done that. I suppose it really just boils down to what kind of people you are playing with.
My favorite BL is definitely the leader. She books, she fronts. One of the guitarists (the one with the degree in Composition) runs the practices. I write the set lists, mainly because I volunteered to do it. We all try to come up with songs we think play to the BL's strengths, with varying degrees of success. She doesn't necessarily know what she wants until she hears it. The other guitarist is one of her oldest friends, and he's really valuable because she trusts his judgment, as do we all. The drummer and I provide low comedy at rehearsal. Everybody has a lot of respect for everyone else. It's a very pleasant situation.
My other BL runs the country band I play in. He's a great talent and has a good soul, but he can be scatterbrained/easily distracted. He and the guitarist/pedal steel/fiddle player more or less co-run the show; they can be pretty funny together. One of them is content to sing and bang on his acoustic guitar; the other is a classically trained musician with a long career as a music teacher. They are old friends, but sometimes they're like an old bickering couple, and while that can be moderately entertaining, it wastes a lot of rehearsal time.
I had a brief experience as a bandleader. I wasn't good at it, mainly because I wasn't good at giving direction.
I do think the leader/democracy thing is somewhat overblown. The bands I had the most luck with had a person who gave direction, but were hardly one-man shows. Everybody had a role.
My other BL runs the country band I play in. He's a great talent and has a good soul, but he can be scatterbrained/easily distracted. He and the guitarist/pedal steel/fiddle player more or less co-run the show; they can be pretty funny together. One of them is content to sing and bang on his acoustic guitar; the other is a classically trained musician with a long career as a music teacher. They are old friends, but sometimes they're like an old bickering couple, and while that can be moderately entertaining, it wastes a lot of rehearsal time.
I had a brief experience as a bandleader. I wasn't good at it, mainly because I wasn't good at giving direction.
I do think the leader/democracy thing is somewhat overblown. The bands I had the most luck with had a person who gave direction, but were hardly one-man shows. Everybody had a role.
I hate to say it, but for me, it appears Democracy Bands are Basement Bands. If you want to get out there and DO IT, you need a leader. Most likely, the next band I will be in will have ME as the leader, and I haven't been willing to do the necessary work to pull that one together. I have good ideas, and I want to try them out, and see if they will pan out like I think they will, but not today.
Of course, I might be willing to be an employee in someone's band, as long as I'm not the lead singer. As a bassist, that might be cool, but they better be a good leader.
Of course, I might be willing to be an employee in someone's band, as long as I'm not the lead singer. As a bassist, that might be cool, but they better be a good leader.
Scenario: I have two bands. One is my project, I'm the BL, I write everything, record most of it all, book everything and the cost is all out of my pocket. It's great but also a lot of work and huge emotional commitment.
The other band, the BL is 10+ years older than me, I show up and play my parts, pay for nothing, plan nothing, have few worries and otherwise just get to be on stage having fun.
Best of both worlds.
For what it's worth I had a friend that tried it and it didn't work out.
They had a hard time voting out members that weren't pulling their weight. The two musicians that were showing up late, and just not serious about band growth, banded together and convinced a friend of theirs in the group to keep them around.
It ended with two of the main songwriters (one being my friend) that wanted the dead weight gone leaving.
It was a 5 piece band with a following, doing some opens for bigger local bands down in Houston. Now they are nothing, no band, no music.
However, band leaders can be problematic too if you don't pick the right one.
I think this thread shows some of the problems with a democratic leadership - IN GENERAL. Look at the direction it has taken.Some on here have taken offense that someone else would tell them what to do or would stifle their voice or creativity. They would never play in a BL type band! Others have taken to snide comments. As it is there will be no leadership in this thread until it flies off the rails and a moderator steps in. I realize this thread isn't exactly like a band, but I do think it illustrates why I like a BL.
As I stated earlier I prefer a GOOD leader. I think a band (that I want to be in) should be run like a business. A business has to have a plan in place to be successful. A business also needs strong leadership to implement that plan. A good leader understands what real leadership means. It doesn't mean "Do it my way or else 'cause I'm the boss". Well, maybe if you're paying me outrageous money...
A good leader values input.
Every band has it's own dynamic. I'm not sure there is an answer that fits every situation. I just know the environment I like to be involved with.
As I stated earlier I prefer a GOOD leader. I think a band (that I want to be in) should be run like a business. A business has to have a plan in place to be successful. A business also needs strong leadership to implement that plan. A good leader understands what real leadership means. It doesn't mean "Do it my way or else 'cause I'm the boss". Well, maybe if you're paying me outrageous money...
A good leader values input.
Every band has it's own dynamic. I'm not sure there is an answer that fits every situation. I just know the environment I like to be involved with.
devnulljp
Supporting Member
I hate the idea of a band leader, unless I'm just a hired gun (which means BL pays, I'm happy to do what they want).
But in an actual band? I want my say. Luckily, the current project seems to work well, as we all have different skill sets and divide things up according to ability.
But in an actual band? I want my say. Luckily, the current project seems to work well, as we all have different skill sets and divide things up according to ability.
If you've ever been in a band that is supposed to be a true democracy, except that everyone secretly considers themselves smarter than the rest and tries to fill the leadership vacuum, only to find they are all doing the same thing, and worse, none of their ideas are consistent or compatible and then the power plays, animosity, and misunderstandings fester until people can't stand each other any longer, then you would instantly be able to relate to those who would prefer a designated, talented, and trusted leader who has (or recognizes) the best answers to the big questions, gets the last word, and has a concept/format/angle to help ensure success for the booking entity, audience, and band members.
Unfortunately, I've wasted my time in that kind of "democracy" once too often.
If you haven't, consider yourself most fortunate.
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ABSOLUTELY not trying to be argumentative here, but you already have BLs. They are just in charge of smaller segments.
Hard to maintain a democracy in a band with more than 3ish people. **especially** if you aren't all lead singers, and don't all write the music.
Usually the singer, followed by the head writer, have the real power. Unless another member of the band is famous or responsible for the overall funding.
Lots of reasons for that; one of them simply being the different levels of work and/or talent required for each role. Your singer needs to be an extremely team oriented type for that not to occur.
Not blaming btw, its just different being a frontman. You have to be the star. Have to look right, have to be able to project musically and emotionally. It's a lot of work.
Being a bassist, when you don't sing, is generally a lot less work than what an awesome frontman has to deal with.
Usually the singer, followed by the head writer, have the real power. Unless another member of the band is famous or responsible for the overall funding.
Lots of reasons for that; one of them simply being the different levels of work and/or talent required for each role. Your singer needs to be an extremely team oriented type for that not to occur.
Not blaming btw, its just different being a frontman. You have to be the star. Have to look right, have to be able to project musically and emotionally. It's a lot of work.
Being a bassist, when you don't sing, is generally a lot less work than what an awesome frontman has to deal with.
I was a BL in several bands, we all had input. But one must have the final word in order to get things done. Important things always discussed. Now I am on the other end, same deal. works fine.
