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Black bassists and "their sound"

#101
JAUQO III-X said:
When I play the so called smooth jazz/fusion I'm mostly incorporating finger style.
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I incorporate fingerstyle as well - it just depends upon the particular artist and the particular song. I guess I'm sort of "partial" to that slap sound (in the right context) - and artists that include it. I hear it in material from David Sanborn, Spyro Gyra, Richard Elliott, The Rippingtons, etc. The first cut on Spyro Gyra's latest release is heavily laced with slap bass - Wimbish is just plain "nasty" (wish I had chops like that). I recently sat in on a jam session with smooth jazz artist Michael Lington (saxophonist)- one of his cuts has a 8 measure slap bass solo. I didn't do it justice, but it sure was enjoyable to play :)
 
#102
PhiDeck said:
Correlation does not imply causality (nor does it preclude it).
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I like this post a lot :). The same thought has gone through my head since I've started playing bass. Over and over I'd think "Just because black people ten to do it, doesn't necessarily make it a 'black thing'." But, I couldn't help but make this thread. I think some part of me wants to believe that we're genetically predisposed to this sort of play style. Seeing as I have neither a basis for nor the qualifications to make a statement like that I'll leave it to the bass playing geneticists to figure that one out ;). However, I have seen interviews with both Victor Bailey and Gerald Veasley where they explicitly stated that they did they're best to avoid playing that way when they were playing bass in the "early days."
 
#103
I'm a geeky white guy, but when I used to work at Sam Ash, I would demo basses and was told by a lot of the customers that I "played like a black guy." It's been something I've thought about since then because I never looked at bass playing as a black or white thing. I grew up on mostly old country, then got into rock about '96 or so. But I learned bass from the school's choir director, who was a funk/gospel type of guy, and completely got turned on to that side of music since the choir did a few funky gospel songs. I had to learn that style of music quickly, but it's also probably responsible for my love of music.

What's funny is now that I've switched to guitar in my band, I hear a lot more country (and blues) in my guitar playing, despite the fact I've only had a passing interest in learning country guitar.

I guess I absorbed the country on guitar, since that's more of a focus than bass ("Amos Moses" is a great example and is one of my favorite country songs), but being turned on to soul/funk/gospel, where the bass is more of the focal point, steered my bass-playing in a different direction. If it wasn't for that choir director, I may have never seriously played bass.

In all, I don't think it's a black/white thing, but a culture thing. The culture someone's exposed to growing up is what has the impact.
 
#105
abaguer said:
I don't think it has anything to do with race or tone. It's if a cat thinks like a drum. That's the "sound". Good thread
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Lots of merit to this, I think. When I'm playing a heavy groove with my band and I want to REALLY lock with my drummer, I get this "Dig in harder, lock-in better, groove stronger" mindset. He really loves breaks and hits too, so the more our (the drummer and I) sound punches through, the bigger the impact of those breaks and hits.
 
#106
Mayers said:
I thought of that once during my college degree in music. I played more in the college orchestra and I think classical music is more a white thing. Or traditionnal jazz is more of a black thing and fusion is more of a white thing. Why I say that ? because in the trad jazz, you can feel, your body feels it like all black music and in fusion you don't feel it, you understand it.
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You are on the right track BUT you using the broad strokes the kept us apart to begin with...yes classical is traditionally thought of as "white" but that was because music like people were kept apart...Its NOW more a personal cultural thing...I just finished a 2 week International Violin Competition recording and the winner was from Korea...the piano accompanist was from Sri Lanka...Although I record and mix it ... I don't know about classical (The Client likes how the product comes out for them..this is my 4th year) My point is people are now free to listen to what they choose and play what they choose more than they could .. say ...just 50 years ago! We know where origins started BUT IMHO the questions now should be, where is it NOW and where is it going?....instead of keeping the music a "Black Thing" or a "white thang"


:hiding:
 
#108
Having not read the whole discussion, I just thought I'd jump in and say that my take on it is that some players know to approach the bass not just as a melodic instrument laying down melodies, counter melodies, and harmonic groundwork, but also a percussion instrument.

I don't pretend to imply anything about race, I don't mean to. But just as an example that's one way in which I'd characterize the difference bettween James Jamerson and Paul McCartney, obviously both very great bass players; players I've learned a lot listening to. And it's not just about fingers/pick/thumb, you can play percussively with any of these. Rocco Francis Prestia for example is a very percussive player, and with his fingers.
 
#109
otis_thick said:
We know where origins started BUT IMHO the questions now should be, where is it NOW and where is it going?....instead of keeping the music a "Black Thing" or a "white thang"


:hiding:
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While I agree with you, I strongly believe that music will integrate itself despite people putting racial labels on things. Which, btw, I'm not doing as much as I am pointing out an observation.

Consider this: Five years ago, I was a lonely Freshman metalhead in a highschool that was 98% black. I couldn't let a soul listen to my iPod for fear of being ridiculed and ostracized even when I let close friends listen to it I would point them to playlists I know they would "approve of." Fast-forward to Junior year, a mere 2 years later and you've got guys like Lil' Wayne telling the world that he plans on making a rock album. Other rappers and hip-hop artists using huge amounts of distorted guitar in their beats and the whole Rockstar ideal transitioning to a more urban medium. On top of all that I now have friends I could talk to about Metallica, Slipknot, Killswitch Engage, and DevilDriver (sometimes :p).

It's gonna happen whether we want it to or not :)
 
#110
Maybe if we took this debate into the realm of guitarists...

Name a black guitar hero (other than Hendrix) or anyone who plays blues.

Sort of empty - Vernon Reid maybe?

Anyway, back to bass...sort of

You can take this debate and expand the scope to bands in general. The whole David Chappelle skit with John Mayer - awfully stereotypical - but like a lot of stereotypes, there is some truth to it.

One example I like to bring up is Fishbone. I've seen them six times and they just flat our ROCK. They mix ska, punk, funk, metal, rock and everything in between - but their mashed up sound didn't really make them big. I think, there are a couple reasons - one, because they're black and not supposed to play rock/metal/punk - and two, the audience that I've seen are mainly white. I'm sure a sociologist or anthropologist can chime in with something that would make sense, but to me - I just don't get. As Funkadelic said - who says a funk can't play rock?
 
#111
Brad Johnson said:
Actual he does play like that... in addition to whatever else he does.
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:rollno:

You know, I'm not even going to bother arguing with you on whatever ambiguous details of "like that" that you had to contrive to try to invalidate my post. I'll just say that I'm not sure what works of Bailey you're listening to, but nothing in those videos made me think, "Hey, you know who this reminds me of? Victor Bailey."
 
#113
I've noticed that a lot of black bass players seem to have a much more "slimey" funk.. if that makes sense. The funk they play has a much more greasy feeling/sound. There are a lot of slurs and slides with the pinky inbetween two notes (like a trill almost)

I aree with the genre similarity but I think that their is something that connects black people but has nothing to do with race but with culture..
 
#114
sloasdaylight said:
Yea, like what most other people here have said, it's not a race thing, it's a genre/instrument choice thing. For the most part all the instruments in those videos were hi-fi punchy scooped basses as well.
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I strongly disagree with the instrument part. A good Jazz bass doesn't sound scooped and neither do Skjolds or Brubakers. It was more likely the camera than the instrument. And even if it were I'm not necessarily talking about the tone (though that does seem to come with the territory) I'm talking about the style and feel.
 
#118
JAUQO III-X said:
That's such a beautiful thing.
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Even now when I play with new people and they ask what I play, my answer is simple: Anything. So it's fun after they've innocently put me in a box based on seeing me to show them that I'm serious about that. Polkas? Cool. Bluegrass? Sure. Show tunes, TV show music (and not just themes, I even know way too much segue music). Because I listen to most music with affection, I retain it and can play it from memory. It usually trips people out... and I'll admit I enjoy that.

As a side effect I also paid alot of attention to the feel of the music I'm listening to. That makes all the difference in the world.
 
#119
Kwesi said:
While I agree with you, I strongly believe that music will integrate itself despite people putting racial labels on things. Which, btw, I'm not doing as much as I am pointing out an observation.

Consider this: Five years ago, I was a lonely Freshman metalhead in a highschool that was 98% black. I couldn't let a soul listen to my iPod for fear of being ridiculed and ostracized even when I let close friends listen to it I would point them to playlists I know they would "approve of." Fast-forward to Junior year, a mere 2 years later and you've got guys like Lil' Wayne telling the world that he plans on making a rock album. Other rappers and hip-hop artists using huge amounts of distorted guitar in their beats and the whole Rockstar ideal transitioning to a more urban medium. On top of all that I now have friends I could talk to about Metallica, Slipknot, Killswitch Engage, and DevilDriver (sometimes :p).

It's gonna happen whether we want it to or not :)
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There is and always has been another way to deal with this and I know because my musical tastes growing up were at odds with what some of my friends were listening to. Ask yourself the simple question...

Do I need their approval for what music I like?

If you're like me the answer was a resounding "no". So if someone did want to attempt to give me grief over what I listened to, it was all too clear that while they have a right to whatever opinion they may have, they were clearly talking to someone who didn't give a damn what their opinion of me was. So I was the kid listening to James Brown, T Rex, Weather Report, Jimmy Smith, Yes, Roy Clark, Tony Bennett, The James Gang, etc. while they listened to whatever the box they were self-imposed into allowed. I liked my way better and I wasn't quiet about it.

That attitude may have had a lot to do with why people didn't bother me about what I listened to or played. I was a student of good music and as such I had a big school that was always in session. And in contrast it sucked to be them.
;)

So if I got the dumbass question "Why are you listening to that "fill in the blank" music (granted, a rarity for me), I'd respond with "Why shouldn't I?".
:eyebrow:


A truly baffling question for people who aren't used to putting thought into what they say.
:D
 
#120
Muaguana said:
:rollno:

You know, I'm not even going to bother arguing with you on whatever ambiguous details of "like that" that you had to contrive to try to invalidate my post. I'll just say that I'm not sure what works of Bailey you're listening to, but nothing in those videos made me think, "Hey, you know who this reminds me of? Victor Bailey."
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How does one invalidate an invalid point?
:D

Victor slaps in a similar fashion to what was in those videos, with a similar feel. Maybe more of a nod to Larry graham but he sure as heck does it. The fact that you don't know that makes arguing with you about it moot.
:D

If you want to expand on your exposure to Victor Bailey and get back to me, cool. Otherwise YMMV.
 

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