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Black bassists and "their sound"
- Thread starter Kwesi
- Start date
Greg Howe is a guitar hero?
King plays blues, Stanley Jordan plays pianoI kid.
No, where are the rock guitar heroes who are black? Are they household names? (remember no Hendrix or Berry or blues/jazz guitarists - only 'rock god' guitarists).
What is the relevance of Rock to the discussion? Just curious... not sure what your point is... again.
I have, on several occasions, had folks folks come up to me and say "I can't believe your white!" - - I try to take that as a compliment on my funkiness/soul/etc... but it always leaves me feeling a bit unsettled... Not a big fan of stereotypes am I...
My 2c:
Nature vs Nurture.
In this case, we just have a really tough time getting past the skin pigmentation thing. OK, most recent DNA work says that skin pigmentation is JUST that and nothing more, The rest of the wiring is pigmentation independent. So, please let's get past that. Understood there is a long history of difficulty getting a grasp on this concept. But we SHOULD be able to avoid that these days.
Now, the nurture part. African American churches and communities have had the back beat laced into their culture for several centuries, it seems. Maybe more. Since a significant influence for modern pop music came from that culture, one has to understand that bassists coming out of that culture have that feel taught from an early age. It is part of their LANGUAGE. Going from a Euro ancestral clap on the 1 and 3 in church to a feel for the back beat is not unlike learning a new language. Like any new language, one learning it must learn to think in those terms, and then, all will be good.
Let's give credit where credit is due and then move on. The African American culture is central to popular music. Don't re-invent history. Understand and respect it.
My 2c. Don't mean to offend anyone.
Nature vs Nurture.
In this case, we just have a really tough time getting past the skin pigmentation thing. OK, most recent DNA work says that skin pigmentation is JUST that and nothing more, The rest of the wiring is pigmentation independent. So, please let's get past that. Understood there is a long history of difficulty getting a grasp on this concept. But we SHOULD be able to avoid that these days.
Now, the nurture part. African American churches and communities have had the back beat laced into their culture for several centuries, it seems. Maybe more. Since a significant influence for modern pop music came from that culture, one has to understand that bassists coming out of that culture have that feel taught from an early age. It is part of their LANGUAGE. Going from a Euro ancestral clap on the 1 and 3 in church to a feel for the back beat is not unlike learning a new language. Like any new language, one learning it must learn to think in those terms, and then, all will be good.
Let's give credit where credit is due and then move on. The African American culture is central to popular music. Don't re-invent history. Understand and respect it.
My 2c. Don't mean to offend anyone.
If that is your watermark for something, cool. You just named three of the biggest guitar heroes EVER yet said other than them...
Doesn't appeal to a mass White audience either.
When?
You know, Pat Boone was big in his day too. I'm sure that also proves something.
IIRC they were promoted as a new band. The fact that they obviously were Black would've been pretty hard to hide unless they all played Buckethead style.
What opinion did you just state?
Bite your tongue about Bieber. He's going to be the next Bootsy.
He might even get bigger than Bootsy... for a minute.
Sorry to hijack your thread Kwesi.
A couple of things...
Walter's tone wasn't scooped either... anymore than the Eden rig was. And I doubt merely bringing a J to a studio would cause any reaction. Not being able to play the date would. J basses can work great in Gospel... just like they do everywhere else.
This is false for me atleast...I been in a Gospel band for 5+ years and have always and only played a 4-string J bass...They don't care about he 'J', they just wish I had a 5..Need that low Eb.
It is true however about the 'new' Gospel sound is very bright with a bunch of Treble, but I don't dig it too much. That and a 6 string, I really can't get into.
I lean towards the idea that what you grow up with, like, and absorb most of the time, will show up in your sound. If the groove that turns you on is straight up headbangin stuff, you can care less about how a guy plays a dotted 8th followed by a 16th (IMO the most important letter of the funk alphabet).
I'm a white guy who grew up in Compton until I was a teen. I loved the Isley Bros, Motown, The Jackson 5 etc. When I moved to a more white community I couldn't grab onto the stuff my friends were listening to for the most part. The groove didn't move me.
Moving forward: when I forge the time to study something,
African music is my rhythm bible and jazz/classical is my harmony bible.
White harmony (I feel jazz harmony is a descendant of classical) and black rhythm.
I love to dig into some Bikutsi:
I know this has been a bit more global than prescribed but hells bells!
I'm a white guy who grew up in Compton until I was a teen. I loved the Isley Bros, Motown, The Jackson 5 etc. When I moved to a more white community I couldn't grab onto the stuff my friends were listening to for the most part. The groove didn't move me.
Moving forward: when I forge the time to study something,
African music is my rhythm bible and jazz/classical is my harmony bible.
White harmony (I feel jazz harmony is a descendant of classical) and black rhythm.
I love to dig into some Bikutsi:
I know this has been a bit more global than prescribed but hells bells!
re: "Living Colour was promoted as a 'black' rock/metal band. Why the need to do so? Why point it out? The 'novelty' factor?"
Not commenting on any of the other discussion points, but ... the above is absolutely true. Vernon Reid is, or was, part of the Black Rock Coalition, and much of the promotion/publicity in the press surrounding the band at the time centered on the idea that Reid and the band were reclaiming for African-Americans a rock tradition that they had lost ... connecting the dots back to Hendrix, etc.
Again, not claiming this as MY argument, just saying what came out of coverage of that band in particular.
& Reid and Living Colour were, indeed, the $%^. I remember an incredible Reid show at the old Knitting Factory in NYC, and a couple great Living Colour shows in Florida, including at the old Jannus Landing in St. Pete. I've yet to hear their '09 album.
Wikipedia on the BRC: The BRC was founded in 1985 in New York City by Vernon Reid (guitarist for the funk metal band Living Colour), Greg Tate (journalist for the Village Voice), and Konda Mason (producer),[1] but today has members from around the world. The BRC's mission is to maximize the development, exposure, and acceptance of black rock musicians, and encourage artists who refuse to cater to "the creative straitjacket the industry has designed."
Not commenting on any of the other discussion points, but ... the above is absolutely true. Vernon Reid is, or was, part of the Black Rock Coalition, and much of the promotion/publicity in the press surrounding the band at the time centered on the idea that Reid and the band were reclaiming for African-Americans a rock tradition that they had lost ... connecting the dots back to Hendrix, etc.
Again, not claiming this as MY argument, just saying what came out of coverage of that band in particular.
& Reid and Living Colour were, indeed, the $%^. I remember an incredible Reid show at the old Knitting Factory in NYC, and a couple great Living Colour shows in Florida, including at the old Jannus Landing in St. Pete. I've yet to hear their '09 album.
Wikipedia on the BRC: The BRC was founded in 1985 in New York City by Vernon Reid (guitarist for the funk metal band Living Colour), Greg Tate (journalist for the Village Voice), and Konda Mason (producer),[1] but today has members from around the world. The BRC's mission is to maximize the development, exposure, and acceptance of black rock musicians, and encourage artists who refuse to cater to "the creative straitjacket the industry has designed."
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
Because they are.
The same thing can be said about blue eyed soul singers.
Racism in society. And the history of black artists and their contributions mysteriously vanishing or mildly swept under the rug . Some people seem to forget that blacks have contributed immensely in the rock genre. And it's actions like this that has taught some who are aware to teach those who are interested in facts but more importantly the true facts.
We need more black bands like Living Colour.
- Aug 16, 2003
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It's a case of Nature Vs nurture,I know White guy's my age who grew up playing and listening to the same music as I did and they authentically play in the style mentioned by the OP while I know Black guy's who are not funky at all. I teach and have had more than a few guy's come to me for lesson's to "teach them funk" and they are very shocked when the first thing I do is have them listen to a bunch of music as opposed to teaching them a particular technique,the real reference is the context of what the bass is doing in it's relationship with the other instruments
Absolutely, I believe that the way one plays by themselves or just without a band is the way they truly sound. Once you throw someone in a band they can sound like whoever they want. For example look at Uriah Duffy in his demo videos chillin' at home then look at him in Whitesnake. Which do you think is more him?
+1, by far one of the best metal bands ever, even lyrically they were heads above the "Cherry Pie" drivel that prevailed at the time.
I still have the memo attached to their second CD from a radio program director to his staff to never play that on the radio. I think race had a lot to do with Living Colour not having a longer shot at the top. You almost never see them on any of VH1-MTV metal shows. [IMHO and all that.]
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
And this is not the 40's, 50's, 60's, etc.
Very pathetic.
I agree.
But the good thing is that they are still touring and going strong. Just not in the states as much.
To be fair to the conversation, a lot of the bands with "shredder" guitarists were swept under the rug once the Seattle scene took over. It was, for a long period of time in the early-mid 90's, uncool to play techincal guitar solos. This, and the fact that they did not try to rewrite Cult of Personality again, but actually tried to do something interesting with the sophomore album, is the primary reason why Living Colour didn't last too long at the top IMO. Grunge did not discriminate, it wiped out quite a few good bands along with the hordes of terrible ones.
While I won't deny the existence of racism in the minds of many, Living Colour is still a pretty widely respected band. The industry may have had elements of racism, but I think they just want to make money and if a black band helps them make money, I doubt they would go out of their way to stop it. Either way, I think Living Colour could have gone to great heights if the industry had not gotten in their way.
On topic, regarding my playing, I get told all the time, by black people, that I must have a little black/African in my family history. I can think of 3-4 different black people, some who are friends and some who I had just met for the first time, who have told me this in the last 2-3 weeks. It is clearly meant as a compliment, and I take it as such.
While I won't deny the existence of racism in the minds of many, Living Colour is still a pretty widely respected band. The industry may have had elements of racism, but I think they just want to make money and if a black band helps them make money, I doubt they would go out of their way to stop it. Either way, I think Living Colour could have gone to great heights if the industry had not gotten in their way.
On topic, regarding my playing, I get told all the time, by black people, that I must have a little black/African in my family history. I can think of 3-4 different black people, some who are friends and some who I had just met for the first time, who have told me this in the last 2-3 weeks. It is clearly meant as a compliment, and I take it as such.
