Black Widow 15 inch @200 Watts

[eniac]

The Pro Rider, Low Rider and Low Max are all way different true woofers from the classic Black Widow series.

I'll vouch for that; I own a Low Rider 15, part number 560310. Inefficient and bandwidth-limited, but below 500 Hz the thing's a beast in the right cab... if you can come up with the power to put the thing to work. Mine's sitting in a 2.7 cu ft cab with "just the right" porting. I always toyed with the idea of creating a home brew biamp rig of death, coupling it with a 210 guitar cab to handle, say, 200 Hz and above. I still have the dbx crossover I reserved for the project, too. But that was a decade ago, and now such schemes are passé. Also that little cab weighs (what feels like) 50-60 pounds. My other fear was that the driver, at or near its limit, might create so much internal pressure that the cab would literally pull apart at the seams without additional bracing. But yeah, that thing's in a whole 'nother world.

 

[Sunnampeg]

All you really need to know about watts is if your speaker cabs are rated at a high enough maximum power level to be safely driven by your amp(s). Since neither of your amps is particularly high-powered, you should be OK with pretty much anything. I agree with @Milo Spleen that a 215 would probably be a more appropriate match to your 212; I don't think a single 15 cab would keep up with the 212 very well, even with more power. One consideration is what the output impedance of your amp is: if your Sunn amp will only safely power a 4Ω or higher load, and if you have a 4Ω 115 cab, you would not be able to parallel another cab with it. You CAN parallel two 8Ω cabs on the output of an amp capable of driving a 4Ω load.

yes i know infact my idea is to run two heads the v4b 70`s and the Sunn 2000s on two separate cabs,if i use the svt i will use the whole stack, and yes I need the cab to be 4 ohms to match my 2x12 ampeg, and anyway, 200w for the sunn 2000s are not enough that think has a tonne of low end, fact is the enclosure 215 peavey is still 200watts, so definitely not enough anyway, i need at least 400w 4 ohm

 

[Sunnampeg]

yes i know infact my idea is to run two heads the v4b 70`s and the Sunn 2000s on two separate cabs,if i use the svt i will use the whole stack, and yes I need the cab to be 4 ohms to match my 2x12 ampeg, and anyway, 200w for the sunn 2000s are not enough that thing has a tonne of low end, fact is the enclosure 215 peavey is 200watts, so definitely not enough anyway, i need at least 400w 4 ohm

 

[Sunnampeg]

also, I need something relatively lighter and not too big and loud enough in combination with the 2x12 Ampeg that at higher volume lacks of definition on the low end, that's why I need a 1x15

 

[Redbrangus]

200w for the sunn 2000s are not enough that think has a tonne of low end, fact is the enclosure 215 peavey is still 200watts, so definitely not enough anyway, i need at least 400w 4 ohm

I'm not exactly following this. Are you saying you don't think the Peavey 215 cab will handle the output of the Sunn amp because it -- the cab -- is only rated for 200 watts?

 

[Sunnampeg]

yes the Sunn 2000s can handle super easyly an Ampeg 810

 

[Redbrangus]

yes the Sunn 2000s can handle super easyly an Ampeg 810

This sounds a bit backwards to me. The 810 can handle the output of the 2000s super easily. A 100-watt, or possibly even a 50-watt amp can also drive an 810 to sufficient loudness, IME. At any rate, I get that you have logistical reasons for wanting a 115 cab. There are some 15s that can keep up with the 212 cab, but I doubt an older Black Widow is one of them. As long as you're powering them from two different amps, you can at least balance between the two cabs. I wouldn't advise powering the two cabs -- a 115 and a 212 -- from the same amp even if it is rated for the resultant 2Ω load.

 

[agedhorse]

Why not quit screwing around and get a single premium 212 or 215 that meets your tone goals and be done with it?

They will all have plenty of power handling, and almost all will be 4 ohms.

 

[Milo Spleen]

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-305--peavey-pro-rider-spec-sheet.pdf

It was marketed as a Black Widow replacement. Gone now, of course.

 

[agedhorse]

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/294-305--peavey-pro-rider-spec-sheet.pdf

It was marketed as a Black Widow replacement. Gone now, of course.

But it’s nothing like the full range or extended range BW drivers.

This series is ~10dB down at 2kHz

 

[DJ Bebop]

The early Black Widows were pretty awful, they didn’t last very long and evolved through 5 or 6 distinct versions.

The earlier versions were an attempt at a “universal” driver family that fell short for bass guitar and real low frequency applications but had an acceptable voicing for guitar, steel guitar and general PA use (from 60 - 70Hz on up). It was an improvement on what was available in the lower end of the market but had a tremendous flaw that was addressed in the 3rd or 4th version. The use of an aluminum former (first one piece with the dust cap which which had to be fabricated on a fixture and may have been the original reason for the replaceable basket because they can’t be reconed using traditional techniques, then an aluminum bobbin with a separate aluminum or paper dust cap).

The aluminum former had a different thermal coefficient of expansion than the VC wire, when heated it couldn’t expand and would blister on the inside surface causing a nasty rub on the pole piece. This is what limited the thermal power to ~200 W.

Later evolutions used Kapton and then glass fiber bobbins, thicker VC wire, increased magnetic gap widths and evolved motor geometry/gap depth. These basket kits are not backwards compatible with the earlier motors, even though some of the model numbers were similar. It’s very important to check with Peavey CS to determine n sure you get the correct parts. My understanding is that some are no longer available.

The later BW drivers are quite good, the newer improvements are very significant.

I don't know what generation of BW 15s these have in them but they sound good for school playground functions and my backyard reggae swim pool parties as PA speakers. They have some bass extension to them that I didn't even use subs. I did run a bass amp into one once and it sounded pretty good but the weight of it was enough for me not to use it for bass…

Peavey International series III

 

[agedhorse]

I don't know what generation of BW 15s these have in them but they sound good for school playground functions and my backyard reggae swim pool parties as PA speakers. They have some bass extension to them that I didn't even use subs. I did run a bass amp into one once and it sounded pretty good but the weight of it was enough for me not to use it for bass…

View attachment 7126618

Peavey International series III

Those were in the middle ground, well after the first generation (which were used in the first International series).

 

[Sunnampeg]

This sounds a bit backwards to me. The 810 can handle the output of the 2000s super easily. A 100-watt, or possibly even a 50-watt amp can also drive an 810 to sufficient loudness, IME. At any rate, I get that you have logistical reasons for wanting a 115 cab. There are some 15s that can keep up with the 212 cab, but I doubt an older Black Widow is one of them. As long as you're powering them from two different amps, you can at least balance between the two cabs. I wouldn't advise powering the two cabs -- a 115 and a 212 -- from the same amp even if it is rated for the resultant 2Ω load.

You are right. I am backward, but sometimes I prefer to lift two heads, the Sunn and the v4b, that weigh 30kg each, rather than an SVT vr USA that weighs 38,7kg. This is why, with all my love for the SVT vr, I handle stairs, etc., better carrying one head at a time that weighs 26/30 kg.

 

[Sunnampeg]

This sounds a bit backwards to me. The 810 can handle the output of the 2000s super easily. A 100-watt, or possibly even a 50-watt amp can also drive an 810 to sufficient loudness, IME. At any rate, I get that you have logistical reasons for wanting a 115 cab. There are some 15s that can keep up with the 212 cab, but I doubt an older Black Widow is one of them. As long as you're powering them from two different amps, you can at least balance between the two cabs. I wouldn't advise powering the two cabs -- a 115 and a 212 -- from the same amp even if it is rated for the resultant 2Ω load.

any suggestion for the 1x15 cab or better buy a cheap Tracelliot 1518, or peavey bx bw /bw and change for a more powerful speaker

 

[Sunnampeg]

Why not quit screwing around and get a single premium 212 or 215 that meets your tone goals and be done with it?

They will all have plenty of power handling, and almost all will be 4 ohms.

i wish i had a car huge enough to move it.

 

[agedhorse]

They won’t be much if any bigger than what you have been looking at.

 

[Sunnampeg]

well i can fit anywhere two singles 1x15 cab but a tall cab does not always fit in a medium-small car here in the UK

 

[Sunnampeg]

just out of curiosity, is the Ampeg 215e rated 400wrms at 4 homes so it does have 2 speakers 400w or two speakers 200w.
because if so if the pevey enclosure 215 has two speakers 200w bw then it must be considered 200w rms or400wrms.