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Blew my 12".....AGAIN!!!!!

#62
Wasnex said:
First, make sure you load the cabinet with a compatible driver. A call to Avatar is the probably the best place to start.

Next, when operating a ported cabinet below its tuning, excursion increases and efficiency decreases very quickly. In order to protect the driver you need to run a high pass filter just below the port frequency. Avatar should be able to make a recommendation on the proper HPF for the cabinet/driver combination.

Finally, a single 12 loaded Avatar is a decent woofer, but IMHO is not much of a subwoofer. I would experiment with running the crossover at a higher frequency. Depending upon how I wanted the rig to sound, I might go as high as 400 hz.

If you want to run your crossover at 100 hz, I would recommend buying a cabinet that will perform better as a subwoofer.
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I've measured the port tuning on my Avatar 112 using a grain of rice and sine waves and found it was tuned to around 54 Hz. That's tuned pretty darn high for a "subwoofer" if that's how you're trying to use it! Cone excursion goes through the roof below the port frequency and the Deltalite only has about 9mm of excursion before damage if I recall correctly. Not a good choice of riggage.
 
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#63
Selta said:
That is not a fact that can be stated. You can't paint with such a universal brush.

Which is the point - just because it's a 15" driver, does not mean that driver and enclosure is designed to "go low". There are 2x10s that will *still* go lower than 2 1x15 cabs. Take for instance the Acme Low B2 cab. That is tuned incredibly low. It'll go lower than say, 2 Ampeg PF-115s.
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A 15" speaker (basket size by the way) who's cone can't move very far will NOT perform well. A 10" speaker with the ability to move the cone a good distance will be not only deeper but be louder at bass frequencies. It is cone area PLUS travel that produces sound no matter what the speaker basket size is.
 
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#64
pb9717 said:
Well, I think I'm on my 5th blown woofer in my AVATAR 112 cab. As of late, I've been using it as the low end of a biAmp setup with only frequencies below 100Khz going to it. Well, just reset up my rig in my home and the 12....she's a gone.

In an effort to put a speaker in the cab that will absolutely NOT blow, i am considering a car subwoofer. Pioneer champion series to be precise. I can get one for $69 off the bay, and hopefully not blow it. It will remove the full range capability of the Avatar cab, but I only use that cab for Low end anyway. ( and it was a NEO 12 too...damn)

Has anyone ever used a dedicated low end , not full range cab as the bottom frequency half of a rig? Or, have any experience using subwoofers in your own rig?

all input is greatly appreciated......ready

GO!
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was that the faital NEO????
 
#65
Wow!!!

I am soooo very grateful for the responses. I should have clarified a few things, so I will,

I run a Carvin BX1500 in biAmp mode,using the internal crossover at 100Hz ( correction from kHz) for freq above 100Hz I use an Ampeg 4x8+ tweet The Carvin provides 300W RMS @ 8 ohms on the top end, and it sounds spectacular. The problem is, the cab has issues covering anything below 100hz, so as a room filler, it comes up short. It works really well atop the avatar as my monitor, and I couldn't be happier. I have a long history of using 8's and have always liked what I've heard.

In regard to the existing Avatar cab..this was, before the demise of the driver, a very good, light NEO12 loaded cab. Eminence driver I believe. Was my go to for city gigs where 1 really light portable cab was in order, and it worked fine. The Ampeg at 63lbs was just too heavy to cart. Avatar 36lbs...nice.

As far as BiAmp'ing goes....both cabs simply sounded much better whe played TOGETHER in BiAmp mode. When I bridged the head, and ran one , the other, or both, the sound always fell short of the BiAmp mode, but I digress.

the low frequency side also had 300W RMS going to the 8 ohm Avatar, with the tweeter turned off via the rear attenuator. Which, I believe should alleviate the High Pass filter question mentioned earlier (??) I may be wrong. Because Frequencies only below 100Hz went to the Avatar, the tweeter narry made a sound whether on or off anyway.

Since I have come to the decision I will not use a full range system, I would like to maintain the 1X12 cab + 4x8 cab configure as it is pretty portable. And vs any full range cab I use, that Ampeg plus a separate low end cab simply sounds better.....than anything I've ever tried, used, or owned. I am shocked how much I love that Carvin head, In BiAmp mode But I digress.

The solution I am so desperately searching for is a cab to handle the low end, that won't blow, and I can actually be moved. I have 300W @ 8 Ohm, or 450@4Ohm to deliver to whatever said, speaker, cab I find BUT, I am not looking forward to moving a 15" or God forbid, an 18" . Understand guys, I'm just trying to fill out the low end of the spectrum..gently. No huge EQ boosts. My Parametric, and Graphic EQ's are pretty much flat. With Minimal boost on my active bass's onboard EQ. ( Sakowsky, and Bartolini on boards)

So, if I can reload the Avatar with a driver that will pick up the slack of the Ampeg... I'm good. I'm not looking for super loud, super low coverage. Just to gently fill out the bottom end, and not keep blowing the damn speaker.

I anticipate the Avatar will no longer function as a full range cab, as the new driver, I suspect, will be more akin to higher excursion, and frequencies between 40-100Hz. And that's if I can even find a driver that will do such a thing in the avatar front ported cab. I'm sure my other option will be a different cab/driver. But if I gotta start moving 15's just to accent the Ampeg, that's gonna be a drag.

Thoughts?
 
#71
The Avatar 112 has a killer form factor and I used a pair for years. I too went through a few 12" drivers before settling on the 3012LF in mine. I also have a BX1500 that I run through a fEarful 1212/6/1 and I think the Kappalites work very well with that amp.

I say get a 3012LF, block one side of the shelf port with foam to lower the tuning, adjust your amp and rock on!
 
#72
Selta said:
Have you looked into fEarful or Audio Kinesis cabs? I think you should take a strong look at either a 15/6/1 or a ThunderChild 115.
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I have no desire to go full range, or displace my Ampeg. Love the sound of the 4x8 already. As stated, I'm not looking to move much more than I'm moving now. Just need a driver that will not blow, sound good and hopefully work in my existing cab
 
#73
selassie1 said:
The Avatar 112 has a killer form factor and I used a pair for years. I too went through a few 12" drivers before settling on the 3012LF in mine. I also have a BX1500 that I run through a fEarful 1212/6/1 and the I think the Kappalites work very well with that amp.

I say get a 3012LF, block one side of the shelf port with foam to lower the tuning, adjust your amp and rock on!
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Very cool. Will check the specs-pricing on that 3012LF!
 
#75
pb9717 said:
The 1st 4 for Emminence kappa pro 12 standard .
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That was your problem. The Kappa Pro is a PA midbass. It has low Qes, which gives high mids efficiency, but it also chokes off the lows. The xmax is 4.8mm, which isn't nearly enough for a sub, and combine that with high cab tuning and you couldn't do anything but blow them using them as subs. They're marginal even for regular bass use. The neo, whatever it was, probably had similar shortcomings. If you get a speaker that's actually the right one for what you're using it for it still has to go into a cab that's going to work with it, and that's not something you can blindly guess about.
 
#76
Rick James said:
That was your problem. The Kappa Pro is a PA midbass. It has low Qes, which gives high mids efficiency, but it also chokes off the lows. The xmax is 4.8mm, which isn't nearly enough for a sub, and combine that with high cab tuning and you couldn't do anything but blow them using them as subs. They're marginal even for regular bass use. The neo, whatever it was, probably had similar shortcomings. If you get a speaker that's actually the right one for what you're using it for it still has to go into a cab that's going to work with it, and that's not something you can blindly guess about.
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Someone has suggested to Eminance 3012, but Spec sheet shows useable frequencies end at 57Hz. Still do not know what to do.....DRAT!!!
 
#77
I think problems arise when you try to mix and match gear. If you are using a factory rig as intended it should last a real long time. You shouldn't have to max out the power trying to be loud enough. Try using a factory matching rig that is louder then you will ever need it to be at only 50%. Ive got a GK RB400 with factory matching 4x10 & 1x18 cabs. You'll blow out your ear drums and soil your tighty whiteys before you damage those speakers. I had no problem playing in a very loud band with two guitarists, both with full Marshall stacks. My rig has been like old faithful for over 15 years, although I did replace a fuse once. I also forgot to turn it off a few times.. but she is still going strong. Dont torture yourself, let your bass have the power!!
 
#78
000_Unknown said:
I think problems arise when you try to mix and match gear. If you are using a factory rig as intended it should last a real long time. You shouldn't have to max out the power trying to be loud enough. Try using a factory matching rig that is louder then you will ever need it to be at only 50%. Ive got a GK RB400 with factory matching 4x10 & 1x18 cabs. You'll blow out your ear drums and soil your tighty whiteys before you damage those speakers. I had no problem playing in a very loud band with two guitarists, both with full Marshall stacks. My rig has been like old faithful for over 15 years, although I did replace a fuse once. I also forgot to turn it off a few times.. but she is still going strong. Dont torture yourself, let your bass have the power!!
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The BX1500 has all the power I need. The rig is plenty loud above 100Hz. I am happy using different cabs for the different frequency ranges, and the Ampeg sounds fantastic covering the top end.

I'm not sure clearing all my cabs and retartarting is the way to go...IMHO.
 

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