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Blues Rules (not a joke thread...)
- Thread starter ArtechnikA
- Start date
Thank you Ringo. (Hey - it's alright. I'm a Ringo fan and I have sung that song on stage. And it's absolutely true.)
I was a bass player in a blues band for a few years. All the "rules" finally got so boring I quit. And yes, when I took anything besides my P-bass to a gig or jam, I had no credibility; when I did, I got to play all night. It was reverse snobbery.
There are no rules in blues, just like there is no crying in baseball....
Those are excellent points. I didn't notice any of that going on at the time, but I was busy too...
I have to go back and have a critical watch of the video. The guitar candidate has lots of other issues that were troublesome (e.g. wanting to play lots of fast notes. Not musically interesting or well-placed notes, but lots of them) but quite surprisingly pulled off some really tasty slide parts. If he can reign in the rapid-fire and develop some of his slide feel into his picking solos, we might have something. So while there was a lot of overplaying within the form, I never got the feeling I couldn't tell when the form was coming around again.
This post wasn't really about this specific project, which has many of its own issues, but trying to explore a new set of "general rules" I'd never heard of before.
as far as "on the beat" goes.... one of the better blues bands I've listened to would best be described as "nonmetric." They were tight, but if you tried to set up a metronome with them, they would be way off. They were together however. Some areas they pushed the beat, others they dragged their feet. It gave their music a really cool feel.
So it really boils down to "can y'all play it together?"
Edit: I believe one of the ACDC songs doesn't sound right unless you push the beat and increase BPM throughout the song...cant remember which one at the moment.
So it really boils down to "can y'all play it together?"
Edit: I believe one of the ACDC songs doesn't sound right unless you push the beat and increase BPM throughout the song...cant remember which one at the moment.
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This guy would fire Muddy Waters for the extra measure he likes to add sometimes.
After some reflection on this, it’s possible the singer is observing the guitarist’s lack of “lead in” skills to bring the form around and allow the singer to make a comfortable pickup to the top of the form. The OP just stated the guitarist was wanking a bit so maybe that’s a polite way of ruling this particular guy out. Hey we all gotta help each other out and not leave anybody hanging on stage. That’s my rule anyway.
I agree. Whether he's right or wrong, at least he can articulate what he doesn't like about the guitarist. It's much better than the kinds of things I've heard from many singers, which are like "It doesn't sound bluesy" or "It needs more mojo".
Beyond the basic forms and high-level structures, which really are essential knowledge and quite firm, there really are not too many rules. There are plenty of idiomatic elements that can be reused and recycled to create thematic variations on the form, but none of them constitute rules in the strictest sense of the word. Perhaps the only thing that matters is that everyone agrees and/or understands what the chosen form (or variation) is and respects it as best they can.
End the solo on which 1? The one in the last bar in the form or the one in the first bar of the next go-round?
The former makes sense, though maybe not as an inviolable rule. The latter will confuse the hell out of the band, they're going to think you're taking another chorus.
The former makes sense, though maybe not as an inviolable rule. The latter will confuse the hell out of the band, they're going to think you're taking another chorus.
You know what it is, you just don't know what it's called.
" Never (rarely) start a solo on beat one, usually it is a done on beat 3 or 4
of 12th bar as a pickup.
End your solo on beat 2 of the 12 bar for a transition/or ending to get back
to vocals/ending riff.
what he is saying is that most guitar soloists start their solos on beat 1 and end on beat 1. And that gets real boring for the audience, real quick. My blues band guitar player loved Miles Davis and his solos reflected it. Just wait -- wait -- wait, and then come in on the IV with a blazing lick for about 3 beats. . Some songs I have written use this overlap trick as an attention getter - Like have the guitar played end his solo with part of the vocal line, and the singer come in singing a third about for a couple of beats. Your singer is aware of arranging and the more you do of it, the more interesting your blues band will be. I remember a blues tune I had arranged, and I put in a 4 bar B3 only break at 78BPM. Nobody plays but the organ guy. And the young guitar player kept trying to throw in a lick. Until the drummer threw a stick at him on stage...
Yes there are formulas that work - how do you catch an ear? how do you keep a otherwise boring tune interesting? The most important formula in Blues is not not play ahead of the beat, and learn to drag beat 4 on cue. Pay attention to your singer - he may teach you something about functioning as a unit.
of 12th bar as a pickup.
End your solo on beat 2 of the 12 bar for a transition/or ending to get back
to vocals/ending riff.
what he is saying is that most guitar soloists start their solos on beat 1 and end on beat 1. And that gets real boring for the audience, real quick. My blues band guitar player loved Miles Davis and his solos reflected it. Just wait -- wait -- wait, and then come in on the IV with a blazing lick for about 3 beats. . Some songs I have written use this overlap trick as an attention getter - Like have the guitar played end his solo with part of the vocal line, and the singer come in singing a third about for a couple of beats. Your singer is aware of arranging and the more you do of it, the more interesting your blues band will be. I remember a blues tune I had arranged, and I put in a 4 bar B3 only break at 78BPM. Nobody plays but the organ guy. And the young guitar player kept trying to throw in a lick. Until the drummer threw a stick at him on stage...
Yes there are formulas that work - how do you catch an ear? how do you keep a otherwise boring tune interesting? The most important formula in Blues is not not play ahead of the beat, and learn to drag beat 4 on cue. Pay attention to your singer - he may teach you something about functioning as a unit.
OP is talking about the turn-a-round used to start the 12 bar blues over again. I'd end on the V but the ii would work.
Yes Country walks tend to be -- find the next root, now miss it by 3 frets and walk chromatically to it and be on it for the change. Kind of a no brainer that works.
Yes Country walks tend to be -- find the next root, now miss it by 3 frets and walk chromatically to it and be on it for the change. Kind of a no brainer that works.
Advice like this is just a suggestion to use sometimes to make something a bit more interesting. It's not a "rule" and if used all the time, it becomes ineffective as a point of interest.
Starting a solo a couple of beats late will give the listener some anticipation build up; starting early gives them a little surprise. It's the same concept as using modal scales for soloing - just ideas on how to freshen up your solos a bit except that it's rhythmic instead of tonal in this case.
I'll never understand how some people turn these little nuggets of improvisational exploration into unbreakable rules....
Starting a solo a couple of beats late will give the listener some anticipation build up; starting early gives them a little surprise. It's the same concept as using modal scales for soloing - just ideas on how to freshen up your solos a bit except that it's rhythmic instead of tonal in this case.
I'll never understand how some people turn these little nuggets of improvisational exploration into unbreakable rules....
Yes… but no.
If your objective is to sell your band, you have to be relatable. And in blues, it really helps to have relatable phrasing if you either start a solo phrase on a strong beat, or end that phrase on a strong beat. In other words, you’re speaking a language that can be understood by your audience.
If you don’t mostly adhere to this type format, then you’re speaking Japanese to an audience that understands Hungarian. And your audience dwindles and disappears.
If you are playing the blues with a rulebook, you arent playing the blues
This band sounds Un-Fun just reading the OPs post
