If you had a relationship with Mike Lull, why didn't you have him build one?
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Bootleg Guitars Jon Hill Custom Bass FAIL
- Thread starter pasIII
- Start date
I commissioned a custom for myself with Alembic. Delivered at the agreed upon price, flawless instrument, on time.
I had no second thoughts whatever about doing it (I paid the entire retail when I ordered it) as I was dealing with an established company (since 1976) with a long, well-respected reputation, even dealers around the country. There were no surprises.
It is ENTIRELY too easy in this online world for any of us to find 'this website' featuring something right down our alley, get target fixation, and not do our homework as to whether or not this is a properly functioning business. There are more than a few stories like this across TalkBass, and I'm certain we'll see more of them.
Don't talk yourself into a 'pie in the sky' bass from someone with a pretty website and not much else.
Check that they are a real business with a real track record.
I could give a rat's ass about 'Celebrity Endorsers' because here in Nashville, I could open a music store just buying 'endorser guitars' they got free or at a tremendous discount just to have their picture taken with the sled for an ad, never to be played out, ever. Forget this, 90% of the time, it's advertising BS.
Do business with a real company like Spector, MTD, Alembic, Sadowsky, and so many well-known small volume builders. It's insurance that your hard-earned money . . . . doesn't vanish into the ether while you're now looking for a Squire Affinity in Craigslist 'cause it's all the money you have left !
And honestly, there are SO many different basses on the market these days, SO many choices, I'd never order a custom again, just no point in it for me.
I had no second thoughts whatever about doing it (I paid the entire retail when I ordered it) as I was dealing with an established company (since 1976) with a long, well-respected reputation, even dealers around the country. There were no surprises.
It is ENTIRELY too easy in this online world for any of us to find 'this website' featuring something right down our alley, get target fixation, and not do our homework as to whether or not this is a properly functioning business. There are more than a few stories like this across TalkBass, and I'm certain we'll see more of them.
Don't talk yourself into a 'pie in the sky' bass from someone with a pretty website and not much else.
Check that they are a real business with a real track record.
I could give a rat's ass about 'Celebrity Endorsers' because here in Nashville, I could open a music store just buying 'endorser guitars' they got free or at a tremendous discount just to have their picture taken with the sled for an ad, never to be played out, ever. Forget this, 90% of the time, it's advertising BS.
Do business with a real company like Spector, MTD, Alembic, Sadowsky, and so many well-known small volume builders. It's insurance that your hard-earned money . . . . doesn't vanish into the ether while you're now looking for a Squire Affinity in Craigslist 'cause it's all the money you have left !
And honestly, there are SO many different basses on the market these days, SO many choices, I'd never order a custom again, just no point in it for me.
I don't understand the logic here at all. If somebody made a crappy product your only legal recourse is to return it for a refund and battle it out in court if they refuse to give your money back.
Asking the crappy builder to make a replacement part gives them a huge legal out and puts all your hopes that they suddenly become better at building things in order to produce the replacement component, which is not likely. Even if it arrives at a much higher quality level than the full instrument, you still aren't getting what you paid for.
By holding onto the instrument you retain possession of something you don't want with no resale value, and completely remove the possibility of ever getting your money back.
Why the hell wouldn't you ship it back and ask for a refund immediately? Or at the very least offer him a very clear compromise of full refund (and you ship the bass back) or a partial refund of X dollars to make up for the missing components and elements that need to be addressed by your own luthier and the matter is settled?
The reason why is (I'm assuming here and you know what it means when one assumes...) it's all easy to talk about sueing someone and battling it out in court but the truth is that costs additional money and even if you do win (doesn't always go your way, it really depends on the lawyer and how much money you're willing to spend) that doesn't mean you're going to see any money. Plus (I may be wrong...) don't you have to sue the party where they are phisically located?
Man, I thought a microscopic seem line in the back of the neck was bad, that guy should stick to splitting wood for a living.
So sorry you did not get what you requested, as that guy is no luthier, he’s a hack!
So sorry you did not get what you requested, as that guy is no luthier, he’s a hack!
"It is ENTIRELY too easy in this online world for any of us to find 'this website' featuring something right down our alley, get target fixation, and not do our homework as to whether or not this is a properly functioning business. There are more than a few stories like this across TalkBass, and I'm certain we'll see more of them.
Don't talk yourself into a 'pie in the sky' bass from someone with a pretty website and not much else.
Check that they are a real business with a real track record." J Wilson.
Very true.^^^
I know some people will still roll the dice on promises from largely unknown builders with a good sales pitch, some pretty pictures, along with all the promises in the world and a "can hardly believe it" price, but here goes.
The old adage is almost always true, "if it sounds to good to be true it usually is."
I know we've gotten used to buying so much, sight unseen, over the internet, but when it comes to custom work, there is just so much that can go wrong, it really can be a big risk. It might be all fine, if you're ordering from a well established company, or builder, with a long standing reputation. But that usually means a significant price point. Reliable quality and customer support cost.
Sure there are outfits and lone builders who will build at a price equivalent to a decent off the rack instrument from the big F or G and similar brands, but they are often offering less custom options, or are a new operation trying to get a foot on the ladder, or are a scam. Not blaming the OP, he was clearly deceived, but generaly, a $2,000 full custom job, sounds to good to be true because it basically is. If you're lucky enough to come across a start up, who has a deep skill set, you could be lucky, but at that price for a full custom job, you're not talking a sustainable business. Take out material costs and that sort of price means a builder doing full custom work is probably working for a hourly rate way bellow minimum wage.
When I started back in the 70's, I gave away three instruments to local respected players who liked them, in an attempt to create interest. It worked and I began to get orders, but I had a rule to never promise what I wasn't 100% sure I could deliver. In those days bad word of mouth was sudden death. Unfortunately these days, it's easier due to the internet, to sell world wide, take peoples money and not deliver, or deliver sub standard work. If your name gets trashed somewhere like Talkbass, that's only a potential loss of a few prospective suckers. Or with a new name and a new website, off they start up all over again....
If you can't physically see and hold an example of a builders work, then at least look for, or ask for some names of previous customers you can contact for opinions.
Do some research and read supposed articles and reviews carefully. Are they paid infomercials, or genuine unsolicited reviews?
Ask for a written contract clearly stating all aspects of the build and the time line for construction and payment instalments. (You wouldn't, or shouldn't, get someone to build you a house, or install a new kitchen, without a written contract and an agreed price.) Anyone who won't agree to such terms should be an automatic NO!
Ask your self if the promised price, range of options and features sounds to good to be true.
Ask on places like Talkbass, for any feedback on a new or unknown to you builder.
If your ignore all warnings and possible red flags and order a bass anyway and it all goes pear shaped... Post about it here as a public service and warning to others, but sympathy might be in short supply.
Don't talk yourself into a 'pie in the sky' bass from someone with a pretty website and not much else.
Check that they are a real business with a real track record." J Wilson.
Very true.^^^
I know some people will still roll the dice on promises from largely unknown builders with a good sales pitch, some pretty pictures, along with all the promises in the world and a "can hardly believe it" price, but here goes.
The old adage is almost always true, "if it sounds to good to be true it usually is."
I know we've gotten used to buying so much, sight unseen, over the internet, but when it comes to custom work, there is just so much that can go wrong, it really can be a big risk. It might be all fine, if you're ordering from a well established company, or builder, with a long standing reputation. But that usually means a significant price point. Reliable quality and customer support cost.
Sure there are outfits and lone builders who will build at a price equivalent to a decent off the rack instrument from the big F or G and similar brands, but they are often offering less custom options, or are a new operation trying to get a foot on the ladder, or are a scam. Not blaming the OP, he was clearly deceived, but generaly, a $2,000 full custom job, sounds to good to be true because it basically is. If you're lucky enough to come across a start up, who has a deep skill set, you could be lucky, but at that price for a full custom job, you're not talking a sustainable business. Take out material costs and that sort of price means a builder doing full custom work is probably working for a hourly rate way bellow minimum wage.
When I started back in the 70's, I gave away three instruments to local respected players who liked them, in an attempt to create interest. It worked and I began to get orders, but I had a rule to never promise what I wasn't 100% sure I could deliver. In those days bad word of mouth was sudden death. Unfortunately these days, it's easier due to the internet, to sell world wide, take peoples money and not deliver, or deliver sub standard work. If your name gets trashed somewhere like Talkbass, that's only a potential loss of a few prospective suckers. Or with a new name and a new website, off they start up all over again....
If you can't physically see and hold an example of a builders work, then at least look for, or ask for some names of previous customers you can contact for opinions.
Do some research and read supposed articles and reviews carefully. Are they paid infomercials, or genuine unsolicited reviews?
Ask for a written contract clearly stating all aspects of the build and the time line for construction and payment instalments. (You wouldn't, or shouldn't, get someone to build you a house, or install a new kitchen, without a written contract and an agreed price.) Anyone who won't agree to such terms should be an automatic NO!
Ask your self if the promised price, range of options and features sounds to good to be true.
Ask on places like Talkbass, for any feedback on a new or unknown to you builder.
If your ignore all warnings and possible red flags and order a bass anyway and it all goes pear shaped... Post about it here as a public service and warning to others, but sympathy might be in short supply.
I don’t want to rub salt on your wounds, but my bass from Krappy Guitars has better workmanship for less than 1/10th of what you paid.
Wow I"m shocked reading what has happened to you! Totally unacceptable! I've known Jon starting with his days at Dean Guitars. I actually own 5 of his basses, bought used probably built mid 2000's and they are fantastic instruments.They are the Huntington Elite models which are neck through and are on his web site, and price is $4000 +
I wouldn't accept that kind of workmanship and would send the bass back demanding my money back or a new bass. For a small custom builder word of mouth and good reviews are vital to the business. Did you talk with Jon besides just emails?
I wouldn't accept that kind of workmanship and would send the bass back demanding my money back or a new bass. For a small custom builder word of mouth and good reviews are vital to the business. Did you talk with Jon besides just emails?
Sadly this thread sparked so much anger that I emailed the builder just to get a résumé… All he sent was this! WTFudge?
I was going to say the same thing about Bud LeCompte. I have a bass that Mr. LeCompte built for me, for less than the cost of the bass in question here, and it's fantastic, especially the finish. It's extremely unfortunate to get taken for a ride by custom builders, but not all of them are bad, even in the price range mentioned. That being said, obviously this particular builder is not one who should be commissioned to build anything.
Yup, there a handful of stand-up guys who will build you something custom and high quality for that price so don't think it can't be done.
Now, can it be done by Jon Hill? Obviously not. Sorry man, that really sucks. One has to wonder what he was thinking allowing that to leave his shop with his name on it. "I'm not proud of it" indeed.
That misspelling is something of a Freudian slip, I figure...
Bud can do just about whatever you want and the end result is going to be solid. I toured his shop years ago and played several basses. I got a good vibe from him. Very much under-rated and under priced for the quality of the instruments he produces.
Wow. I’ve spent years lusting over Hill/Huntington basses since seeing Stefan Lessard play them in the late 00s. They sounded amazing and looked solid, and I figured that based on his discerning (and spendy) tastes they must be incredible instruments. Can’t believe that this is even the same shop. I built better instruments in high school as a rank amateur, and still would never call myself a luthier. Stunning, really.
I just have to say regarding you getting what you pay for in the $2200 range. My Serek was around that much and it's great. That's not an amount that I'd consider "you get what you pay for". You still should have gotten a professionally built instrument at that price.
My point is, don't blame yourself. This isn't a case of you cheaping out. The issues with this bass shouldn't happen by anyone who is doing this as a business.
My point is, don't blame yourself. This isn't a case of you cheaping out. The issues with this bass shouldn't happen by anyone who is doing this as a business.
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