Bootleg Guitars Jon Hill Custom Bass FAIL

[Terry Farmer]

What would Judge Judy do?

 

[gln1955]

What would Judge Judy do?

That's the thing about legal recourse, aside from the impracticality of suing someone in another part of the country for 2K. How do you convince a judge that you were gravely wronged when you bought a hand made custom bass for under market rate and it didn't turn out to your standards? Unless the judge is familiar with guitars they aren't going to appreciate how bad this one is.

 

[muggsy]

Once it was passed the deadline and you were getting dodgy answers and pics of a cracked neck, shame on the builder, but shame on you for moving forward. By accepting the bass, making the final payment and accepting replacement parts, you're stuck with it. There's no advice other than coulda, shoulda, woulda.
Also, you're a member of TB. It actually has a Luthier section that's loaded with very skilled and bonafide builders. At the very least, you could've asked folks around here if they knew this guy or to at least check out his website. Or even asked in the general basses section for recommendations of reputable builders.
This is unfortunate, but I don't have any hollow sentiments of sympathy to offer. The lesson here is not that you get crap basses for under $4k, or that custom builders can't be trusted. It's to make sure you do your homework, pay attention to red flags and don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of. We all have to learn that lesson at some point. At least it was a $2k bass and not your life savings and a $300k house or something.
Once this all cools off, maybe you can sell it to someone who wants to rebuild/refinish it and recoup some of your money. Or pay someone to rebuild it for ya. There's always something you can do.

Blaming the victim doesn't help. It's easy to say, with the benefit of hindsight, that you would never make such a mistake, but this site has no shortage of threads like this, at least three of which are currently stickied at the top of the Basses Forum. I deal with financial fraud all the time in my day job, and victim blaming is very common, but those victims are often highly educated and very successful in their chosen field. Saying "don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of" shifts the focus from the actual bad guy, the one who took your money and didn't deliver what he agreed to. Ask anybody who invested with Bernie Madoff.

 

[bassGtar]

Pic of full bass would be useful to validate instrument source. Understanding why you chose this bass inspired from a press release, given the other options, would be interesting, and add credibility to your experience. You are, and have the right to be anonymous, but that makes it too easy to criticize fairly or unfairly. You mentioned that the bass is useless, “firewood”, but also that you don’t want to send it back because you might never get it back. I don’t recall in your post if you ever spoke with him on the phone, but texting/email can easily lead to misunderstandings, anger, bad faith, etc. Finally I’d suggest reporting it to the BBB as he has a A+ rating and only one complaint on record. Good luck.

 

[Crackle]

Whoever this Jon Hill of Bootleg Guitars is, he deserves to lose his business and everything else. I have never considered a bootleg to be a good thing to start with.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

<<This is a repost so I could edit, I hope this is ok>> Hello fellow bassists, over the last 10 years or so I have experienced a few setbacks by being scammed by luthiers that claimed to build me my dream basses. Since then I have seen many reports online about other musicians scammed the same way, I thought I'd write my experiences here so other musicians can learn from mine.

This story is about the latest experience that I had with a luthier Jon Hill of Bootleg Guitars.

End of 2018 I found an article on Premier Guitar about this new brand, Bootleg Guitars by Jon Hill. The bass looked interesting to me so I took a look at the website. I found that this guy builds basses for famous players like Stefan Lessard of Dave Matthews Band and Tom Araya of Slayer. It seemed legit because of the Premier Guitar article and these roster of famous players.

I contacted Jon over email about a long list of my ideas of the bass, neck dimension, pickup combinations, type of bridge, wood, colors etc. He seemed excited and said "Yes, I can build this no problem" He also told me that the cost would be $2200, which seemed like a very good deal for a custom bass like this.

He told me he requires a deposit, 1/4 of the whole cost. and the bass would be built in 3-4month. I said ok.

A few months passed by and he sent me pictures of his design and he said he would start to build this bass then his communication started to shift. He started to ask questions that had already been discussed over and over again, and he asked for another deposit. I sadly paid him again because I was excited about the bass.

Another couple of months passed by and he sent me a picture of a cut out body, at this time the deadline had already passed.

After this, it's just me messaging him every week if he has made any progress. More questions from him asking "hey what do you think about roasted maple necks?" or "How about this bridge instead of this one?" Answering questions with questions... very frustrating and also alarming behavior.

Almost 6 month passed, and he sent a picture of the neck, which had a big crack on the head stock, I asked him what it was and he said "look, I'm not proud of it. I'll glue it" I said absolutely not. He has to remake the neck. He replied that he has another neck that's on an already built bass that he can use. At this point I just wanted to be done with this project so I said ok.

Now, he asked for full payment before the bass was completed, what?

Over a year later, I finally received the bass, and I was shocked! Off the bat, I've never seen such an awful finish in my life. My student's Squier looks better than this. There were hairs and dust under the finish in many spots (gross!), tool marks were everywhere on the body and neck. Tuners looked used and had scratches on them already. Oh and one of the face dots were misaligned! How elementary! How did he think any customer would be happy to receive this? It looked like some kid's garage project

As I tested out this bass, I realized that electronics were not wired right. At this point, I decided to bring it to the local luthier for further investigation.

My local go to luthier Mike Lull (RIP) took a look at the bass, he took a few minutes and said "oh, boy..." He found a pool of solder in the switch which was shortening out the circuit and needed to be replaced, Neck was warped and the truss rod maxed out. Nut was slanted that needed to be simed. Several high frets. Neck dimension is not what I asked for. Oh, and the pickups and the bridge were not what I wanted either.

I was sad, disappointed and furious, so I wrote JH. Told him about it. At this point, I thought of sending it back and trying to get a full refund but I was afraid that he wouldn't pay me back and would lose the instrument in my hand. He had excuses after excuses but he agreed on building me a replacement neck.

Another year passed and I finally received that new neck (again tool marks everywhere, fingerprints under the finish...) but I had to pay another local luthier to install it for me (different heel size...)

I just have to say you get what you pay for, maybe.... $2200 is not a lot for custom instruments. That's why guys like Fodera cost you $8000 and up. I think my search for custom basses are over, it just is not worth it for me. I was burnt twice, the first time was by Marco Schoots of Windmill Guitars.

I thought by seeing famous players using it or publications like Premier Guitar having a write up, the luthier is legit but it's not true at all. I have seen many horror stories online since then. I thought I needed to speak up. I really wish famous musicians or publications would do more research, so little guys like us won't get burnt.


I hope you guys are well and healthy, take care.

Here are some photos

Sorry to hear. That's hard to look at. Thank you for putting the word out. Hopefully it will serve as a warning to others and help someone else out.

 

[gln1955]

Can you post some full shots of the bass and shots of the headstock or whatever shows that it's a Jon Hill build?

The shot of the head shows Hill's signature scrawled on it, as is what he does.

 

[RichterScale]

Blaming the victim doesn't help

Neither does sympathy or calling everyone a victim. That's also a bit of an extreme and sensational label for something like this. I usually reserve that word for things that are a little more severe and truly out of someone's control.

Saying "don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of" shifts the focus from the actual bad guy,

I didn't shift any focus. If the story is true and the builder took a year to produce a crap build and hasn't made it right, he's a douche. Nothing changes that.
If the OP didn't see the signs early on, then what's done is done. If this is the first time the OP has experienced something like this, there's little else to offer other than, well, now you know better. Try not to let it happen again. I don't see how hollow sympathy or calling someone a "victim" is in the least bit helpful.
That implies that there's nothing that can be done to prevent it from happening or happening again. So, what,.....never look both ways when you cross the street and if you get clipped, you're a victim? I don't subscribe to that mindset.
The OP will be okay. Like I said earlier, at least they didn't lose their life savings on a house, or an investment scam.

 

[sonic 7]

Wow I"m shocked reading what has happened to you! Totally unacceptable! I've known Jon starting with his days at Dean Guitars. I actually own 5 of his basses, bought used probably built mid 2000's and they are fantastic instruments.They are the Huntington Elite models which are neck through and are on his web site, and price is $4000 +
I wouldn't accept that kind of workmanship and would send the bass back demanding my money back or a new bass. For a small custom builder word of mouth and good reviews are vital to the business. Did you talk with Jon besides just emails?

I’m surprised that he has actually produced some nice instruments. This seems have happened to some other builders. They start out ok and then just completely flame out. Honestly I don’t know how a small one person shop can even turn any profit building high quality sub $5000 instruments.

 

[sonic 7]

Neither does sympathy or calling everyone a victim. That's also a bit of an extreme and sensational label for something like this. I usually reserve that word for things that are a little more severe and truly out of someone's control.

I didn't shift any focus. If the story is true and the builder took a year to produce a crap build and hasn't made it right, he's a douche. Nothing changes that.
If the OP didn't see the signs early on, then what's done is done. If this is the first time the OP has experienced something like this, there's little else to offer other than, well, now you know better. Try not to let it happen again. I don't see how hollow sympathy or calling someone a "victim" is in the least bit helpful.
That implies that there's nothing that can be done to prevent it from happening or happening again. So, what,.....never look both ways when you cross the street and if you get clipped, you're a victim? I don't subscribe to that mindset.
The OP will be okay. Like I said earlier, at least they didn't lose their life savings on a house, or an investment scam.

Ok. , he’s a survivor.

 

[Thumpin6string]

A few months passed by and he sent me pictures of his design and he said he would start to build this bass then his communication started to shift. He started to ask questions that had already been discussed over and over again, and he asked for another deposit.

Sorry for your crappy bass. for me, it would have ended at this.^^^^^^

 

[aprod]

Should have bought a Fender.

 

[Robert B]

Your experience must have been unusual because according to the website,
"Bootleg starts with the mindset where each step of the process is mastered. We only use the finest woods and components available combined with excellent craftsmanship to illicit the clarity and tonality we are known for.
Professional instruments built to withstand the rigors of touring and elevate your game in the studio, but most importantly each instrument has to feel right and sound right, that's what I am good at."

Bud Lecompte could have a done you right for that amount of money.

Not to mention Maruszczyk!

 

[Deleted member 271037]

When I clicked this thread I didn't expect anything even half as bad as that. The woodwork, the finish, the soldering... Everything looks like it's been made by an amateur in a FILTHY garage... and then run over by a car.

This should be a full refund IMO. I wouldn't want that bass if someone gave it to me for free, sorry!

 

[DJ Bebop]

<<This is a repost so I could edit, I hope this is ok>> Hello fellow bassists, over the last 10 years or so I have experienced a few setbacks by being scammed by luthiers that claimed to build me my dream basses. Since then I have seen many reports online about other musicians scammed the same way, I thought I'd write my experiences here so other musicians can learn from mine.

This story is about the latest experience that I had with a luthier Jon Hill of Bootleg Guitars.

End of 2018 I found an article on Premier Guitar about this new brand, Bootleg Guitars by Jon Hill. The bass looked interesting to me so I took a look at the website. I found that this guy builds basses for famous players like Stefan Lessard of Dave Matthews Band and Tom Araya of Slayer. It seemed legit because of the Premier Guitar article and these roster of famous players.

I contacted Jon over email about a long list of my ideas of the bass, neck dimension, pickup combinations, type of bridge, wood, colors etc. He seemed excited and said "Yes, I can build this no problem" He also told me that the cost would be $2200, which seemed like a very good deal for a custom bass like this.

He told me he requires a deposit, 1/4 of the whole cost. and the bass would be built in 3-4month. I said ok.

A few months passed by and he sent me pictures of his design and he said he would start to build this bass then his communication started to shift. He started to ask questions that had already been discussed over and over again, and he asked for another deposit. I sadly paid him again because I was excited about the bass.

Another couple of months passed by and he sent me a picture of a cut out body, at this time the deadline had already passed.

After this, it's just me messaging him every week if he has made any progress. More questions from him asking "hey what do you think about roasted maple necks?" or "How about this bridge instead of this one?" Answering questions with questions... very frustrating and also alarming behavior.

Almost 6 month passed, and he sent a picture of the neck, which had a big crack on the head stock, I asked him what it was and he said "look, I'm not proud of it. I'll glue it" I said absolutely not. He has to remake the neck. He replied that he has another neck that's on an already built bass that he can use. At this point I just wanted to be done with this project so I said ok.

Now, he asked for full payment before the bass was completed, what?

Over a year later, I finally received the bass, and I was shocked! Off the bat, I've never seen such an awful finish in my life. My student's Squier looks better than this. There were hairs and dust under the finish in many spots (gross!), tool marks were everywhere on the body and neck. Tuners looked used and had scratches on them already. Oh and one of the face dots were misaligned! How elementary! How did he think any customer would be happy to receive this? It looked like some kid's garage project

As I tested out this bass, I realized that electronics were not wired right. At this point, I decided to bring it to the local luthier for further investigation.

My local go to luthier Mike Lull (RIP) took a look at the bass, he took a few minutes and said "oh, boy..." He found a pool of solder in the switch which was shortening out the circuit and needed to be replaced, Neck was warped and the truss rod maxed out. Nut was slanted that needed to be simed. Several high frets. Neck dimension is not what I asked for. Oh, and the pickups and the bridge were not what I wanted either.

I was sad, disappointed and furious, so I wrote JH. Told him about it. At this point, I thought of sending it back and trying to get a full refund but I was afraid that he wouldn't pay me back and would lose the instrument in my hand. He had excuses after excuses but he agreed on building me a replacement neck.

Another year passed and I finally received that new neck (again tool marks everywhere, fingerprints under the finish...) but I had to pay another local luthier to install it for me (different heel size...)

I just have to say you get what you pay for, maybe.... $2200 is not a lot for custom instruments. That's why guys like Fodera cost you $8000 and up. I think my search for custom basses are over, it just is not worth it for me. I was burnt twice, the first time was by Marco Schoots of Windmill Guitars.

I thought by seeing famous players using it or publications like Premier Guitar having a write up, the luthier is legit but it's not true at all. I have seen many horror stories online since then. I thought I needed to speak up. I really wish famous musicians or publications would do more research, so little guys like us won't get burnt.


I hope you guys are well and healthy, take care.

Here are some photos

 

[DJ Bebop]

It seems to me there is a lot of information to be had in the name of the company alone...
Bootleg Guitars LLC

 

[honkylips]

Wow, it’s impossible to argue with the quality concerns shown in the pics. I own three Huntington elite models myself, all made in the early 2000’s, and they are flawless. I have also met Jon in person several times while his shop was in the Cleveland area. Very disappointing to see this, and while I’m hopeful the OP gets a satisfactory resolution, I’m also hoping that Jon is ok. This is not the work of the same guy who built my instruments.

 

[non]

my last rattle can job was nicer than that! geez!

 

[Barticus]

Wow, it’s impossible to argue with the quality concerns shown in the pics. I own three Huntington elite models myself, all made in the early 2000’s, and they are flawless. I have also met Jon in person several times while his shop was in the Cleveland area. Very disappointing to see this, and while I’m hopeful the OP gets a satisfactory resolution, I’m also hoping that Jon is ok. This is not the work of the same guy who built my instruments.

I just looked them up this morning and saw that they're in Cleveland, did they move away from there?

 

[tbz]

Wow, it’s impossible to argue with the quality concerns shown in the pics. I own three Huntington elite models myself, all made in the early 2000’s, and they are flawless. I have also met Jon in person several times while his shop was in the Cleveland area. Very disappointing to see this, and while I’m hopeful the OP gets a satisfactory resolution, I’m also hoping that Jon is ok. This is not the work of the same guy who built my instruments.

Yeah. Looking at his history I don’t see why the OP should have anticipated this outcome. Dude has been building instruments for several decades as a professional.

I don’t know the guy, 0 affiliation; but it’s not normal to see folks go from a full time competent professional to…this. Victim blaming the OP seems odd considering that context.