Boss GT-1B ... Arrogant? Stupid? Definitely unusable live.

[FugaziBomb]

...it just seems like a toy to play around on in your bedroom.

Pretty much. I have never found a multiFX unit I like, and I have tried a few. The closest I have ever come to using them is having an old Zoom 505 on my board briefly just because one of the modulation effects piqued my interest for a short while. Bought a used Boss GT-10 a few years back for a steal, but the only thing I liked about it was making a dime by selling it. They always feel clunky and counter intuitive. I never liked any of the drives on tap on any of the units I've owned or tried, and thought almost every preset was a total joke. Also never really thought any of the reverbs where worth while, but I'm mostly looking for a spring verb - which I understand is hard to do digitally. I really want to find an optimal multi fx set up for me, but I don't think it exists for what I'm willing to pay.

 

[jimfist]

Got it. Does it include a usable compressor? I use and really like a Keeley Bassist and figure I'll run into that 1st.

That's a tough call to make, really. Compression is such a tweaky, subjective thing with bassists. When the Keely Bassist is a $200 dedicated comp, it's a crap shoot whether a multi-fx pedal worth just a little more is going to scratch that itch for you. I do use the comps in the G5n (and the B3n), and have them set for just a tiny hint of compression at a low ratio. I think there are usable comps in the box, but I don't know as I'd go so far as to say that it's their strongest point. The LMT-76 (Urei 1176) isn't too bad. The B3n, though, has a lot more comp choices than the G5n, and better ones for bass.

 

[pbass6811]

What about the MS-3?

"and the ability to switch between your custom patches on the fly"

+1. Although I'm not interested in one of these, I'd like to know the answer.

I like Boss stuff. I think most of it is well made, but I haven't been a fan of their effects/multi-effects since I picked up one of those incredibly mediocre ME-50B's. That thing completely soured me on Boss multi's. I haven't had anything Boss on my pedalboard, UNTIL I picked up an ES-8 loop switcher. That thing is AH-MAZING! What a phenomenal piece of gear! It's not an effect, but if you have effects, the ES-8 will make your life so much easier.

So, what's my point?

The MS-3 seems to be an offshoot of the ES switchers. It has some of the functionality of the ES's, but it has some of the effects built-in. If the effects sound decent, which they should, then it's probably a killer piece and it seems like it'll do what you want...

 

[jimfist]

I really want to find an optimal multi fx set up for me, but I don't think it exists for what I'm willing to pay.

You've nailed the heart of the issue right there, for the most part. IMHO, there are all-in-one multi-fx pedals that could probably get you 90% of the way to replacing a traditional stomp pedal board, with good quality replications of drives, chorus, echo, reverb, flange, pitch shift, etc. They just cost a lot of money. The problem is that some of these dedicated stomp effects are really, really specific in the way they get their unique signature, and there are so many of them out there that it's impossible for the fx modelers to keep up with every possible flavor.

OTOH, if you have 4 - 5 boutique fx pedals that cost $250-300 each, you are almost already at the price point for an AX8, FX8, or Helix (LT). I'd be willing to bet that you can easily replace the value of 4 -5 boutique pedals with one of those units, and then have the bonuses you get with the upper-tier multi-fx (programmability, routing options, I/O, etc.

But down here in the weeds of low-cost modelers, it's really a roll of the dice, but IMO it has come a long, long way, and for the better.

 

[The Deep End]

What about the MS-3?

"and the ability to switch between your custom patches on the fly"

Will check it out. Thanks.

 

[40Hz]

In the past I have used these to set up loops of certain effects I use together frequently. Could help if you really like a multiFX pedal but hate bypassing it. I got mine for about $40 (JHS I think, but I'm not 100%), but the Keeley pictured is almost twice that (Why?!)

Don't know. It's a simple enough device to build. You can google for twenty different variations. even StewMac has the wiring diagram for a true bypass passive looper on its webpage:

That intrigued me. So just for kicks I did a quick parts cost up:

3.35 (3.94x1.75" unpainted enclosure)
2.05 (Switchcraft stereo jack)
4.65 (3 x Switchcraft mono jacks)
5.70 (3PDT latching switch)
0.18 (5mm LED)
0.60 (LED mounting bezel)
0.20 (4.7K resistor 1/4 watt in single quantities)
0.85 (DC power jack)

$17.58 TOTAL (exclusive of shipping if any)

Add in a hour for build and finishing (U.S. minumum wage =$7.25/hr)

And now the grand total is approximately $24.83 all in to build one yourself using quality components bought in single quantities.

So in the larger scheme of things, $40 doesn't seem like that unreasonable a price for a company (with overhead, benefits, marketing expenses etc.) to have to charge for such a simple device. Especially since you get a finished product, a company name, a warranty...and a BOX! Just plug & play.

Also much easier to sell and recoup some money later on if you decide you no longer want it. The market for DIY electronics is usually nil, so if you build your own, it's usually yours forever.

Why Keeley gets $80 is something I'll leave for somebody else to speculate on.

 

[gadgetgirl]

Have you tried calling Roland/Boss technical support and discussing your questions with them? I spoke to a terrific tech support guy there last week about using the MS-3. He spent a lot of time with me on phone walking me through step by step addressing my questions.
It's worth trying if you haven't done so already or returned the pedal.

Pre-ordered this pedal from Sweetwater, and waited impatiently for delivery. In a nutshell, love the delivered sounds and potential for creating new ones, but am shocked at how unusable it is in a live setting. As far as I can tell, you have to scroll thru 100-200 patches one-at-a-time via dial or up/down pedals. Even worse, there is no stomp button for using / bypassing the pedal. You must ALWAYS have a patch selected. This wreaks of arrogance and/or stupidity on Boss's part. It's going back to Sweetwater.

It seems to me that guitar/bass pedal technology is 10 years behind that for keyboards. Using any modern DAW (I use Logic / MainStage), a keyboardist can queue up presets for 100's of instrument/effect settings and switch from one patch to the next via touch pad, foot pedal, etc. Why do guitarists/bassists have to perform a combination Riverdance-juggling routine to make the same thing happen?

Whoever comes up with a midi-controlled standard that controls our dozens of effects and amp settings will be in for a huge pay day. Is it already out there and I've just missed it?

 

[jimfist]

You can assign the CNTRL 1 switch to a number of different functions. If you wanted, for example to have a single button TUNER switch, you could assign CTL 1 to Tuner. If you wanted, in addition, to have the ability to scroll patches up and down via discrete switches, you'd have to get two additional switches, plugged into the back CTL 2/3 1/4" jack, and assign them accordingly. This is based on viewing the GT-1B effects/parameters manual.

 

[fly agaric]

Don't know. It's a simple enough device to build. You can google for twenty different variations. even StewMac has the wiring diagram for a true bypass passive looper on its webpage:

View attachment 1187509

That intrigued me. So just for kicks I did a quick parts cost up:

3.35 (3.94x1.75" unpainted enclosure)
2.05 (Switchcraft stereo jack)
4.65 (3 x Switchcraft mono jacks)
5.70 (3PDT latching switch)
0.18 (5mm LED)
0.60 (LED mounting bezel)
0.20 (4.7K resistor 1/4 watt in single quantities)
0.85 (DC power jack)

$17.58 TOTAL (exclusive of shipping if any)

Add in a hour for build and finishing (U.S. minumum wage =$7.25/hr)

And now the grand total is approximately $24.83 all in to build one yourself using quality components bought in single quantities.

So in the larger scheme of things, $40 doesn't seem like that unreasonable a price for a company (with overhead, benefits, marketing expenses etc.) to have to charge for such a simple device. Especially since you get a finished product, a company name, a warranty...and a BOX! Just plug & play.

Also much easier to sell and recoup some money later on if you decide you no longer want it. The market for DIY electronics is usually nil, so if you build your own, it's usually yours forever.

Why Keeley gets $80 is something I'll leave for somebody else to speculate on.

I've never been a DIY pedal guy. My pedals always end up worse when I lift up the hood, just like my automobiles.

But your confidence and the simple schematics and low price point have me seriously considering building this sort of bypass. It seems sort of ... fun.

One general question: My main issue is noise. Will moving the bulk of my board to loop that I can bypass eliminate some of the noise if I try this?

 

[Wfrance3]

To play without effects, have the tuner set in bypass mode by pressing the left and middle foot switches simultaneously.

That sounds convenient...

 

[nonohmic]

You can assign the CNTRL 1 switch to a number of different functions. If you wanted, for example to have a single button TUNER switch, you could assign CTL 1 to Tuner. If you wanted, in addition, to have the ability to scroll patches up and down via discrete switches, you'd have to get two additional switches, plugged into the back CTL 2/3 1/4" jack, and assign them accordingly. This is based on viewing the GT-1B effects/parameters manual.

View attachment 1187559

This must be why the dude in hte other thread was saying he'd immediately buy an FS7 with the unit.?

 

[The Deep End]

Have you tried calling Roland/Boss technical support and discussing your questions with them? I spoke to a terrific tech support guy there last week about using the MS-3. He spent a lot of time with me on phone walking me through step by step addressing my questions.
It's worth trying if you haven't done so already or returned the pedal.

I would have if I felt there were any possibility of:

A.) Bypassing on the fly

B.) Sequencing patches into a "playlist" and moving easily between them.

The user manual was very clear about how the patch creation / recall worked. Don't believe I missed any capabilities.

Chris @ Sweetwater came up with a doable - but not good - workaround on the latter, and nothing on the former

 

[The Deep End]

You can assign the CNTRL 1 switch to a number of different functions. If you wanted, for example to have a single button TUNER switch, you could assign CTL 1 to Tuner. If you wanted, in addition, to have the ability to scroll patches up and down via discrete switches, you'd have to get two additional switches, plugged into the back CTL 2/3 1/4" jack, and assign them accordingly. This is based on viewing the GT-1B effects/parameters manual.

View attachment 1187559

Thanks @jimfist ... bypass issue resolved at cost of a foot switch. Not bad. At addl $100, I still like the G5N as a replacement. Better for using many patches live IMO

 

[jimfist]

Thanks @jimfist ... bypass issue resolved at cost of a foot switch. Not bad. At addl $100, I still like the G5N as a replacement. Better for using many patches live IMO

Cool. If live use is a specific concern for you (as it is with me), then either the B3n or the G*n series (G5n/G3n/G3nX) would be decent choices due to the additional footswitches, although the B3n/G3n aren't as full-featured as the big brother G5n, but still better than the stand-alone GT-1B by far IMO.

 

[40Hz]

I've never been a DIY pedal guy. My pedals always end up worse when I lift up the hood, just like my automobiles.

But your confidence and the simple schematics and low price point have me seriously considering building this sort of bypass. It seems sort of ... fun.

One general question: My main issue is noise. Will moving the bulk of my board to loop that I can bypass eliminate some of the noise if I try this?

No idea. Noise is usually a separate issue. If the device is noisy, putting it in a loop should go a long way to eliminating the noise it's making when it's idle. Switching it in doesn't eliminate that problem. But if you're playing, it usually gets masked beneath the music.

If you're getting a lot of noise, you may want to rearrange your pedal order or try a different PS. If a compressor is downstream from a noisy pedal, it's going to make it seem noisier because of how a compressor works. Same goes for anything that's boosting. So see if you can isolate the culprit or culprits.

FWIW, a lot of pedals don't like being daisy chained like when using a 1-Spot. So if you have access to a power brick type supply with actual isolated outputs, that will eliminate crosstalk. But a noisy pedal (especially some of the old vintage types) are just inherently noisy. So if you are using one of those, it's just the toll you have pay. Like single coil pups in a JB. It's part of the deal.

If you build your own, check out the Link Removed website for parts. That's where I buy a lot of one-off parts I don't want to stock up on. They're inexpensive compared to places like StewMac and nice people to deal with. They do Link Removed (3/4/5 channel loopers) that make life easy if you don't have a stock of parts or a good junk drawer to draw from. Prices are very reasonable IMO. I'm not affiliated in any way. Just a satisfied customer. Luck!

 

[PullThePlug]

Cheap multi-fx units are always going to disappoint. I always found that they have a degree of latency when swapping patches. Either get the pedals for what you want, or pay up for nicer processors. You might find better luck with Eventide, Fractal, and Strymon products. However, they get costly. Good luck!

 

[bassnote6]

Can you put your favorite patches staring at U1 in sequence as on the GT10-B? My first patch is bypass then chours,flange and so on. Then I delay the effect to only come on after I touch it again. I hope you can resolve your issue. Peach to you.

 

[Edmang]

Thanks for this thread. Was thinking about getting one of these. Has eliminated that desire

 

[40Hz]

Cheap multi-fx units are always going to disappoint. I always found that they have a degree of latency when swapping patches. Either get the pedals for what you want, or pay up for nicer processors. You might find better luck with Eventide, Fractal, and Strymon products. However, they get costly. Good luck!

Agree.

And it's not just the quality of the effects in a multi-effects unit - it's the signal flow. Most multis don't let you rearrange the inputs and outputs. So you're locked into whatever standardized sequence of effects their sound designers think sounds best. Since I sometimes do non-standard positioning of individual effects within my signal chain, not being able to put something in front or after something else of my own choosing is a major deal breaker for me.

I know there are now some of the newer multi-effects that do let you custom design your own signal chain. But even with that you're stuck with the effects you're given. If you want a different modulation or delay device, or something the designers didn't anticipate you wanting, you're out of luck. And forget about anything analog either. It's all digital in the multi-effect world.

As for me, I'll stick to my basket of patch cords and my "does just one thing - but does it exceptionally well" collection of gadgets. That just seems to work best for me. No knock on multis. They're just not my own particular cuppa.

 

[The Deep End]

Can you put your favorite patches staring at U1 in sequence as on the GT10-B? My first patch is bypass then chours,flange and so on. Then I delay the effect to only come on after I touch it again. I hope you can resolve your issue. Peach to you.

This was Chris @ Sweetwater's suggestion - sequence per your needs and use Next/Prev button to step thru your set list. Certainly workable, but less than ideal. I could see mishitting a button live and ending up with a very wrong patch.