Boss Katana Bass ...

[agedhorse]

No, it's quite possible and common to design both class D and class AB power amps to similar distortion numbers.

Say THD of 0.01% is no problem for either type of amp and is in practice far below what's audible (very far, based on double-blind listening tests I have done).

I have designed with both topologies for many years, going back into my pro audio days, and there is no clear audio quality winner overall, they are similar competing topologies. One area where class D is pulling far ahead is the combination of size, weight and efficiency.

 

[67goat]

No, it's quite possible and common to design both class D and class AB power amps to similar distortion numbers.

Say THD of 0.01% is no problem for either type of amp and is in practice far below what's audible (very far, based on double-blind listening tests I have done).

I have designed with both topologies for many years, going back into my pro audio days, and there is no clear audio quality winner overall, they are similar competing topologies. One area where class D is pulling far ahead is the combination of size, weight and efficiency.

One, they generate different types of distortion. You can design a class D and a class A/B to have the same level of distortion, but you cannot develop them to have the same distortion. They generate distortion in different ways.

Secondly, designing two different amp types to generate the same level of distortion means you are developing to different specs (in terms of expected input and output). It is a mathematical impossibility to design a class D amp that takes in the exact same input with the exact same output and get the same level of distortion at peak wattage. It is inherent in the design and the physics involved.

I already said several posts ago that modern designs make it practically meaningless as the difference can be beyond human hearing. That is not the same as saying they have the same level of distortion.

 

[agedhorse]

One, they generate different types of distortion. You can design a class D and a class A/B to have the same level of distortion, but you cannot develop them to have the same distortion. They generate distortion in different ways.

Secondly, designing two different amp types to generate the same level of distortion means you are developing to different specs (in terms of expected input and output). It is a mathematical impossibility to design a class D amp that takes in the exact same input with the exact same output and get the same level of distortion at peak wattage. It is inherent in the design and the physics involved.

I already said several posts ago that modern designs make it practically meaningless as the difference can be beyond human hearing. That is not the same as saying they have the same level of distortion.

Are you an EE and amp designer?

First you state that class D has more distortion, there’s plenty of examples of the contrary. Then you start changing your premise.

Talking about the distribution of the harmonics, each individual design in both class AB and class D will have a harmonic distribution, but with class D it will be due to the combination of both the linear and non-linear circuitry.

In practice, it’s not much different due to the presence of the reconstruction filter (and in some cases the higher ordered harmonics can actually be lower on a class D topology)

 

[P Cheen]

The verdict is in: I’m loving the Katana 110.
I like how I can make this as straightforward as I want it to be while offering a plethora of effects on tap. The headphones out is exceptional as well, reminds me of the headphones out on both my Genzler Magellan and GK Legacy heads.
The best thing of all– it plays well with my Kiloton 5.

At first I was surprised about the sound farting out when I had the pad engaged and the gain and volume both past noon, but I quickly realized I was utilizing it like I was the guitar Katana where I normally set the volume and gain high but the master volume low. I have since turned down the gain and volume closer to 9 o’clock and the distortion is gone even when I have the Kiloton in series mode.

 

[BruceG63]

The verdict is in: I’m loving the Katana 110.
I like how I can make this as straightforward as I want it to be while offering a plethora of effects on tap. The headphones out is exceptional as well, reminds me of the headphones out on both my Genzler Magellan and GK Legacy heads.
The best thing of all– it plays well with my Kiloton 5.

View attachment 4702623

At first I was surprised about the sound farting out when I had the pad engaged and the gain and volume both past noon, but I quickly realized I was utilizing it like I was the guitar Katana where I normally set the volume and gain high but the master volume low. I have since turned down the gain and volume closer to 9 o’clock and the distortion is gone even when I have the Kiloton in series mode.

Yea I hear you.I really like my Katana 210 as well.I know the class d vs ab has been debated into the ground but this amp to me has something that I havent heard in most of the other 210 combos and that is superior punch and feel/response to input.So not to beat on the hornets nest it must be the speakers,preamp design etc.The amp I really wanted was the Mesa TT800 as I think Mesa is one of the very few manufacturers that build a great sounding bass amp despite whatever output it has.But im in my mid 60s now and retired on a fixed income so I dont have the $ to spend on gear like I used to.The Katana 210 to my ears sounds closer to my old Mesa bass 400+ that the other 210 combos ive heard.I know a watt is a watt etc but if your happy with what amp your using my opinion should mean nothing to you so be happy and play on.

 

[FerrisB]

I posted some of this in a different thread - but I thought I'd chime in here too...

I just received a 110 yesterday. My goals for the getting this:

• Good sounding practice amp for home
• Playing at church, special events, musicals etc as my own monitor while using DI to FOH
• Loud enough to provide some moderate stage volume support when needed
• Boss effects "hard wired" rather than bringing multi-effects or pedalboard with associated cables etc.
• Simple connection - one cable, power cord, done!

Initial impressions - but have not played out with it as yet:

• To me - it doesn't feel "gimmicky" in any sense - very solid build, controls are logical and and work well either through the computer or using the panel knobs directly. I actually like that it doesn't have a built in drum machine, tuner, looper etc... those functions are better handled other ways IMHO.
• The sound is great out of the box with minimal adjustments - the effects stay out of the way if you don't need them, and I like that it doesn't have an LCD screen or anything - feels simpler when you want it that way. All available functions seem included strictly for tone shaping - no extra "features" as I said.
• Effects are all Boss obviously - they work for me and the situations I am involved in as a player. I likely won't use all of them, but interesting to try out at times. I like that they are "out of the way" when not needed.
• Interesting HPF and LPF options available with the BLEND control - haven't worked these out yet.

Seems great so far for my kind of playing! It pretty much checks every box for me.

 

[FerrisB]

Follow up post - couple of questions - and I did read through the manuals from Boss

1. Does anyone know the intended characteristics of the SHAPE button in the amplifier section? There are three variations or off. I can hear differences - and it appears that the variations perhaps change based on the selected amp type? There is no associated change in any other setting/eq to see what is going on - or what is the design intent at each setting. The manual seems quite vague about this - did I miss something?

Here is the description from the main manual: "Adds a different tonal character to the amp sound. Pressing the button toggles between the three types (green/red/orange). The effect is off when the indicator is dark."

The tone studio manual is silent on this.

I'm all for experimenting and choosing what sounds best to me - but it would be helpful know the design intent of each setting?

2. The BLEND control has some LPF and HPF controls available in the Tone Studio. Are these settings only affecting how the EQ section is applied to the dry and wet signals? And that these are not a true HPF/LPF in the sense that they can cut certain frequencies altogether?

The main manual is also somewhat vague on this - but it appears just to be EQ related: "Switches the frequency band in which the dry sound is blended. Pressing the button toggles between the three types (green/red/ orange). The effect is off when the indicator is dark."

The tone studio manual gives a more specifics about slope and other parameters.

Its also interesting to note that the available Tone Central presets sometimes have the blend off - sometimes on - and the specific levels and settings vary quite a bit as well. I will keep experimenting with this.

Thanks for any info you might have on this - enjoying the amp so far!

 

[BruceG63]

Follow up post - couple of questions - and I did read through the manuals from Boss

1. Does anyone know the intended characteristics of the SHAPE button in the amplifier section? There are three variations or off. I can hear differences - and it appears that the variations perhaps change based on the selected amp type? There is no associated change in any other setting/eq to see what is going on - or what is the design intent at each setting. The manual seems quite vague about this - did I miss something?

Here is the description from the main manual: "Adds a different tonal character to the amp sound. Pressing the button toggles between the three types (green/red/orange). The effect is off when the indicator is dark."

The tone studio manual is silent on this.

I'm all for experimenting and choosing what sounds best to me - but it would be helpful know the design intent of each setting?

2. The BLEND control has some LPF and HPF controls available in the Tone Studio. Are these settings only affecting how the EQ section is applied to the dry and wet signals? And that these are not a true HPF/LPF in the sense that they can cut certain frequencies altogether?

The main manual is also somewhat vague on this - but it appears just to be EQ related: "Switches the frequency band in which the dry sound is blended. Pressing the button toggles between the three types (green/red/ orange). The effect is off when the indicator is dark."

The tone studio manual gives a more specifics about slope and other parameters.

Thanks for any info you might have on this - enjoying the amp so far!

Sorry on my 210 Ive just turned a few knobs here and there to get a good sound and not a whole lot else so far.I will have to look into that.

 

[monkeyxx]

Follow up post - couple of questions - and I did read through the manuals from Boss

1. Does anyone know the intended characteristics of the SHAPE button in the amplifier section?
2. The BLEND control has some LPF and HPF controls available in the Tone Studio.

I'll start with question number two. The manual quote you posted answers your question.

You get a high pass filter, and a low pass filter, that are applied to the DI signal only, not the 'AMP' signal.

I'm going to make a wild guess here that the three modes are HPF, LPF, and HPF+LPF. But you'll have to "use your ears" to figure out which mode is which.

Unless there's a "resonance" control on these (which I highly doubt,) then they are probably pretty ordinary Butterworth first order, second order, third order filters, or something similar. In other words your Grandmother's favorite home cooked traditional filters you've loved for most of you life.

Back to question number 1. The manual is quite 'vague' on what this is specifically, technically. But it's similar to the "Variation" button on the Katana MK II Guitar amps. You can think of it as a different amp model, a different channel on a similar amp, maybe like the Ultra Hi/Ultra Low Ampeg kind of switches, the sort of "boost" or "tube" buttons on some amps, etc. Just a different "tone." Not really sure without them telling you, again you'll have to use your ears.

 

[FerrisB]

Thanks for the reply on this - I'll do more experimenting and just choose what sounds best. The HPF/LPF applied to the DI signal that is blended in makes sense - I'm probably overthinking this. I'll probably just leave it alone for a while as I find the sounds and blend levels that I like.

Regarding the SHAPE button - I know I will just choose what sounds best for each situation. It's just that there must have been a specific decision that was made when these options were set up, but they chose not to share this in the manual or in the tone studio application. Not a big deal - sounds like its that way in the other Katana amps as well perhaps? Doesn't detract from anything - just that curious minds want to know sometimes!

 

[BruceG63]

zZounds does a review on youtube of the Katana 210 Bass that covers most of the features of the amp and gets some great tones out of it.Down below I ask them how does the Katana 210 compare volume wise to other 210 bass combos such as the Fender Rumble 500 210 or the Ampeg 210.Their response was this amp is loud.It has no problem keeping up.Just thought I would put that out there for those of us that think it doesnt have enough power.Must be something in the design other than the class ab output Who knows?

 

[JimChjones]

Just thought I would put that out there for those of us that think it doesnt have enough power.Must be something in the design other than the class ab output Who knows?

Probably just that headline watts make rather less difference than many people think.

 

[Johno Dunn]

My 210 will be here on Wednesday! A couple questions,
1. Is there any access to a tuner through the BTS app?
2. Has anyone found a bag that it will fit in?
I'm thinking seriously of letting my Boss board go, and just utilizing what is in the 210.

J!

 

[phipop]

Hello, i dont know about your first question, nor the second, sorry i cant help, but having a 210, i am very interested if someone has an idea for a bag! I personnaly have cut a rumble 100 bag, but it is too short of course.
Do you like your 210?
I like mine very much, but i am not a pro user, i like the sound better than my old rumble, more punchy i find, and many possibilies, whitch i dont use yet.
I think it is a very good amp, for practice and small gigs.

 

[Johno Dunn]

Hello, i dont know about your first question, nor the second, sorry i cant help, but having a 210, i am very interested if someone has an idea for a bag! I personnaly have cut a rumble 100 bag, but it is too short of course.
Do you like your 210?
I like mine very much, but i am not a pro user, i like the sound better than my old rumble, more punchy i find, and many possibilies, whitch i dont use yet.
I think it is a very good amp, for practice and small gigs.

I won’t have mine till next week, but I just spent a good half hour on one at Guitar Center. This will be plenty loud for the gigs that I do. Plenty loud! And I was getting some pretty amazing tones out of it just on the unit itself.
I would like to comment on those having break up issues with their tone. I set it with the Gain all the way off, and turned up the channel volume and the master volume. Nice and punchy clean tone for days! Sorry to say it, but I think most of this may have been user error.

 

[scottfeldstein]

What I really want to know is the volume capabilities of the 110 combo. Could I bring it to an open mic night with two acoustic/electric guitars and three vocalists in the PA and still be heard? How about a small gig with a sensible drummer, maybe even one that plays with mutirods or brushes? I imagine there's not much it could do with a heavy hitter with big sticks and guitar players who love to hear themselves more than anyone else.

What could I expect performance-wise out of it? I realize that the 210 would do all of this with ease, but I don't want to pay for or carry it. Why oh why didn't they make a 112 with 150 watts?

 

[steelbed45]

I won’t have mine till next week, but I just spent a good half hour on one at Guitar Center. This will be plenty loud for the gigs that I do. Plenty loud! And I was getting some pretty amazing tones out of it just on the unit itself.
I would like to comment on those having break up issues with their tone. I set it with the Gain all the way off, and turned up the channel volume and the master volume. Nice and punchy clean tone for days! Sorry to say it, but I think most of this may have been user error.

You just described the settings I posted a photo of in this thread.

I've noticed that there weren't that many instances - but: 1. The issue was all the same, and 2. It was right at product roll out.

You're free to mudsling and infer me as an idiot, but I think your line of reasoning is flawed.

 

[Johno Dunn]

You just described the settings I posted a photo of in this thread.

I've noticed that there weren't that many instances - but: 1. The issue was all the same, and 2. It was right at product roll out.

You're free to mudsling and infer me as an idiot, but I think your line of reasoning is flawed.

Sorry, I meant no disrespect. When I first plugged it in it was sounding like an issue to me as well, but some knob twiddling cleaned it up. Just trying to help others and no mudslinging or name calling intended. Sorry you took it as such.

 

[frankie5string]

What I really want to know is the volume capabilities of the 110 combo. Could I bring it to an open mic night with two acoustic/electric guitars and three vocalists in the PA and still be heard? How about a small gig with a sensible drummer, maybe even one that plays with mutirods or brushes? I imagine there's not much it could do with a heavy hitter with big sticks and guitar players who love to hear themselves more than anyone else.

What could I expect performance-wise out of it? I realize that the 210 would do all of this with ease, but I don't want to pay for or carry it. Why oh why didn't they make a 112 with 150 watts?

Yes... I do this kind of gig once every week or so and it will work. Most of the time I use my Elf head and 1x10 but I've used the Katana 112 a few times and it does really well. Don't expect a tonne of bottom end.

Roland does make an amp that is basically what you describe, though - it's the Cube CB120XL and it's still in the lineup. Unfortunately, it's very expensive.

 

[Johno Dunn]

Any one using a stand for the 210?