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Bought a Mesa 412

Went to GC today and got a great deal on it. Now I just have to save for a good head for it....

Until then, a buddy of mine has an Ampeg B-2RE, rated 450 watts @ 4 ohms he can lend me. Would this be underpowering the 412, rated at 1200 rms?
 
I was just afraid of burning up the amp. I've heard that Ampeg can be a little wishful in their wattage ratings. If the cab is anything like Basson, you have to give it nearly what it's rated at, like +/- 10% otherwise damage is done. I wouldn't be much of a friend if I fried his amp...
 
You are not going to hurt the amp, but you could fry some speakers in your new cab by clipping the low powered amp. Which (the way I understand it) will send square waves to the cab and could fry a speaker.

Speakers can handle square waves just fine. Ever used a fuzz or synth pedal? Those are capable of putting out square waves, and no one's blowing speakers left and right with them.

What destroys speakers is...

A) Overheating. Less common in the modern bass world, but basically comes from continuously pumping more power than the speaker can handle. For transient peaks, most speakers can handle double or more their rated wattage, thermally, but if you sustain that much power, you're going to be melting the voice coil.

B) Overexcursion. This is the big killer in bass. The mechanism in the speaker can only travel so far, thus it can only push so much air. When you ask the speaker to travel further than it is designed to, it's called overexcursion. It generally happens on low notes at high volumes, and over-emphasized bass frequencies exacerbate the problem. You'll hear it as the speaker farting out. At that point, you're going to want to back off of the volume or the bass, otherwise the cone will begin to tear. Hit a big enough transient peak when you're already tearing the speaker up, and you might get a flying cone. Those are always fun.
 
What destroys speakers is...

A) Overheating. Less common in the modern bass world, but basically comes from continuously pumping more power than the speaker can handle. For transient peaks, most speakers can handle double or more their rated wattage, thermally, but if you sustain that much power, you're going to be melting the voice coil.

B) Overexcursion. This is the big killer in bass. The mechanism in the speaker can only travel so far, thus it can only push so much air. When you ask the speaker to travel further than it is designed to, it's called overexcursion. It generally happens on low notes at high volumes, and over-emphasized bass frequencies exacerbate the problem. You'll hear it as the speaker farting out. At that point, you're going to want to back off of the volume or the bass, otherwise the cone will begin to tear. Hit a big enough transient peak when you're already tearing the speaker up, and you might get a flying cone. Those are always fun.

This is how I've understood things as well. Amps burn out when the cab draws too much current for the amp to handle; speakers burn when the amp sends too much for the cab to handle (overheating, overexcursion).

Is this the general consensus? I don't want to destroy my newly acquired awesome cab.
 
I want one of those cabs so bad, congrats! I tested one out with a Titan, and I had(have) never heard such clean, loud, bass goodness. That's why I'm selling my entire rig.....

It really is amazing. I rarely see mesa equipment, much less good condition mesa at a reasonable price. And get this...I paid less than the price they paid! A sweet $680. Can't beat that with a stick.
 
Speakers can handle square waves just fine. Ever used a fuzz or synth pedal? Those are capable of putting out square waves, and no one's blowing speakers left and right with them.

What destroys speakers is...

A) Overheating. Less common in the modern bass world, but basically comes from continuously pumping more power than the speaker can handle. For transient peaks, most speakers can handle double or more their rated wattage, thermally, but if you sustain that much power, you're going to be melting the voice coil.

B) Overexcursion. This is the big killer in bass. The mechanism in the speaker can only travel so far, thus it can only push so much air. When you ask the speaker to travel further than it is designed to, it's called overexcursion. It generally happens on low notes at high volumes, and over-emphasized bass frequencies exacerbate the problem. You'll hear it as the speaker farting out. At that point, you're going to want to back off of the volume or the bass, otherwise the cone will begin to tear. Hit a big enough transient peak when you're already tearing the speaker up, and you might get a flying cone. Those are always fun.

Well written and possible, but for the most part wrong.

A: I have never seen a voice coil melt, or heard of anyone doing this with a bass amp and cab.

B: This is more likely to happen, but for the most part by people who are not paying attention to what they are doing and use the big smiley face EQ setting.

Invariable most speaker manufacturers will recommend amps with more power than a speaker can handle because it will/can (help) control the speaker. Ask you local sound reinforcement guru as I did way back in 1986...

http://www.goodsound.com/howto.shtml

http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/techtips/d--11/30/2005

A little research goes a long way.
 
Well written and possible, but for the most part wrong.

A: I have never seen a voice coil melt, or heard of anyone doing this with a bass amp and cab.

B: This is more likely to happen, but for the most part by people who are not paying attention to what they are doing and use the big smiley face EQ setting.

Invariable most speaker manufacturers will recommend amps with more power than a speaker can handle because it will/can (help) control the speaker. Ask you local sound reinforcement guru as I did way back in 1986...

http://www.goodsound.com/howto.shtml

http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/techtips/d--11/30/2005

A little research goes a long way.

Atrapp, thank you for those articles--I learned quite a bit. My question still stands: will the ampeg be underpowering the mesa to the point of clipping? If so, does the amp have protection against this? I've heard of speakers that are efficient enough to handle power that is well below their RMS ratings.

This is a pretty serious matter. I don't want to fry my friend's amp, or my mesa! Thanks for your help.
 
Atrapp, thank you for those articles--I learned quite a bit. My question still stands: will the ampeg be underpowering the mesa to the point of clipping? If so, does the amp have protection against this? I've heard of speakers that are efficient enough to handle power that is well below their RMS ratings.

This is a pretty serious matter. I don't want to fry my friend's amp, or my mesa! Thanks for your help.

You'll be fine... watch out for those melted voice coils though! :bassist::bassist:
 
Yeah it was clip city at practice last night. The master was at 80%, the gain was between 60-80%, depending on how much overdrive I could bear to hear. At low volumes this thing is sweet. I can't wait to push it hard.
So you take a B2RE, turn it up almost as loud as it can go, then say you can't wait to push your new cab hard?

:bassist: