Bought a new Ibanez. Neck pocket question.

[Jay2U]

Yes, there was a small shim in the neck pocket, not very thick.

Right, I didn't know expensive basses were made that way. I always thought the woodwork would be machined with sufficient precision to fit within close tolerances.

Another thing, which springs to mind, is the size of the shim. Does the surface of it have the same size as the pocket? In my opinion it should be the case to have as much contact as possible between neck and body.

 

[96tbird]

.., In my opinion it should be the case to have as much contact as possible between neck and body.

Its been argued and sometimes shown that any variation is minuscule and inconsequential.

 

[testing1two]

The issue of shimming the OP's neck is not a matter of whether or not it plays well. It's a question of quality control. The bass in question was clearly not made according to the design specs & tolerances since there are so many other examples that do not exhibit this problem.

To accept this flaw because the bass still plays ok would be like accepting the panel gap in this Mercedes body kit because the hood still closes:

 

[henry2513]

The issue of shimming the OP's neck is not a matter of whether or not it plays well. It's a question of quality control. The bass in question was clearly not made according to the design specs & tolerances since there are so many other examples that do not exhibit this problem.

To accept this flaw because the bass still plays ok would be like accepting the panel gap in this Mercedes body kit because the hood still closes:

lol two different things, a body kit is meant to enhance looks if there are gaps its not servings its purpose, a shim is meant to enhance playability or bring the instrument to spec and an accepted part of the manufacturing process, how it makes the instrument look is immaterial as long as its not affecting playability

 

[henry2513]

Right, I didn't know expensive basses were made that way. I always thought the woodwork would be machined with sufficient precision to fit within close tolerances.

Another thing, which springs to mind, is the size of the shim. Does the surface of it have the same size as the pocket? In my opinion it should be the case to have as much contact as possible between neck and body.

That my "expensive" bass needed to be shimmed doesn't bother me whatsoever considering that Ive played some very very pricey boutique s and there was no difference in playability which speaks to how well it was made in that I could set it up to play so well.

 

[testing1two]

lol two different things, a body kit is meant to enhance looks if there are gaps its not servings its purpose, a shim is meant to enhance playability or bring the instrument to spec and an accepted part of the manufacturing process, how it makes the instrument look is immaterial as long as its not affecting playability

I disagree. A hood is meant to cover the engine. if you design a fancy looking hood then it becomes all the more apparent when it's not manufactured or assembled properly. A bass neck is supposed to mate to the body at a specific angle based on the design within manufacturing tolerances of the neck and the pocket. When you design the end of the neck to look fancy it becomes all the more apparent when it's not manufactured or assembled properly.

I understand what you're saying about performance being the primary concern and from a player's standpoint I agree. If it doesn't bother you then it's a moot point so keep on truckin.

But in the case of instrument manufacturing the buyer is paying for a product that meets all the design tolerances, mechanical and cosmetic. And when compared to countless other Ibanez models the massive shim and subsequent neck misalignment on the OP's bass doesn't pass muster.

 

[BBox Bass]

I own 5 SR series Ibanezes (205, 305, 405, 885, and 05) and 2 EDA905s. The only one that ever looked like the OP's was my orange 905, and when I took the neck off, I discovered an enormous washer in the neck pocket. I bought it used, so I assume this was the handiwork of a previous owner. I removed it and lowered the saddles, but couldn't get them down far enough to my liking so I put a thin wooden shim in the pocket. When I showed the bass and washer to my tech, he laughed and told me he would have done the same thing. The bass now has lower action than the rest of my Ibanezes. It looks and plays just fine.

I recently bought a Peavey T20 with a shim stapled to the bottom of the neck. My tech said it looked like someone at the factory accidentally hit it too hard with a belt sander and then attached the shim to make the neck usable. Removing it would have resulted in an angle similar to the one in the OP's photo.

I don't think these things are a big deal with secondhand instruments, but seeing how the OP bought his new, I would advise getting a professional opinion and going from there.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

With all due respect; I've been working on Ibanez basses since the mid 80's - I'm not new to this either. I didn't mean to offend, but you came off rather harsh (I thought), and I didn't see any Ibanez SR basses listed in your profile.

Ibanez gear is pretty sought after over here, so I've sold most of what I've had over the years.

I have tons of gear I'm not listing, including the SR that is the only ibanez in my stable ATM.
I looked the model number up back in the day, but can't recall it, it's the side-jack, rubber-cone knob, regulated Lo-Z PJ one from the 80's/90's.

In mine the lip of the neck heel sits slightly below the top, and the FB is level with the top. No shims.

Do you guys not see what the problem is? This thread isn't about shims. This is about a defective neck pocket or neck itself, and whether or not he should send it back for a replacement. It's a brand new $800 bass - it should be defect free, and as I said before ... it's an anomaly to get an Ibby SR with that sort of defect. Ibanez makes quality instuments - even the cheap ones.

That comes with the BO design, the ability to correct minor inconsistencies in the manufacturing.

A $800 instrument is IMHO a mid-price piece of equipment, most of the price-wise high end Fenders (guitars mostly though) have either had shims or needed 'em. Desperately.

Right, I didn't know expensive basses were made that way. I always thought the woodwork would be machined with sufficient precision to fit within close tolerances.

IME the difference usually comes from the bridge, a slight difference of design can necessitate the use of neck re-angling.
Manufacturers also sometimes use the same neck for different bodies, and shimming needs can arise.

Another thing, which springs to mind, is the size of the shim. Does the surface of it have the same size as the pocket? In my opinion it should be the case to have as much contact as possible between neck and body.

I always shim that way, IME there's a definitive difference in tone between the two styles.

OTOH, I have had to cut a few shims because the owners have not cared for the new tone and have preferred the old tone/sustain with a partial shim.

To accept this flaw because the bass still plays ok would be like accepting the panel gap in this Mercedes body kit because the hood still closes:

Are You raising Ibanez to the MB price point, or lowering the MB to the Ibby price point?

Regards
Sam

 

[testing1two]

Are You raising Ibanez to the MB price point, or lowering the MB to the Ibby price point?

Regards
Sam

Let's just say that if you're going to mess with a MB you had better do it right because quality expectations are already at German levels.

We could lower our expectations a bit and use, say, a brand new Dodge/SRT Viper but it's still egregious.

 

[neuralsnafu]

to be honest i don't think i'd accept a bass that had been shimmed either. that just tells me that the likelyhood of reaching a proper spec set up within the limits of the truss rod are minimal. so i'd send the thing back.

 

[testing1two]

to be honest i don't think i'd accept a bass that had been shimmed either. that just tells me that the likelyhood of reaching a proper spec set up within the limits of the truss rod are minimal. so i'd send the thing back.

Shimming and truss rod adjustments are unrelated. The truss rod just counteracts the bow in the middle of the neck caused by string tension. A shim raises the heel of the neck to bring the strings closer to the frets in the upper register, thus lowering the action. It's only done when the bridge saddles won't go low enough to achieve the proper string height. It's a fairly common practice but the shim size is very thin. In fact, in most cases the shim is only .010-.015" so unless you're really looking closely, you'll hardly notice it's there.

To have such a large shim that makes the entire neck look crooked means the neck or the pocket was machined or sanded incorrectly.

 

[96tbird]

Ibeenhad.

 

[henry2513]

And when compared to countless other Ibanez models the massive shim and subsequent neck misalignment on the OP's bass doesn't pass muster.

I'd agree with you here if there was an issue with playability but OP say it plays fine so again I say...why worry about it?

 

[96tbird]

Not the same model

 

[testing1two]

This, while not perfect, is more in line with what should be expected:

 

[stingray69]

I couldn't help but follow this thread from the previous one that was started. I have a brand new SR-705 - fantastic instrument and plays like a dream. I checked the neck pocket area and mine also looks like the OP's. BUT, I only looked at the bass side of the neck pocket the other day. Something more interesting occurred to me this morning after looking at the treble side of the neck pocket a little more closely.

Notice that the bass side "looks" like the neck is shimmed heavily. Well, look at the treble side - where did the angle go? It should be just as obvious on the treble side too if the neck were so drastically tilted - should it not? It's hard to tell in the pics, but there is a *very slight* rise on the treble side. It's tiny as compared to the bass side, but there. Now, if you were to continue the treble side body & horn out 4 more frets like you have on the bass side, you would see that the treble side would gradually rise up as if wanting to eventually meet the fingerboard like you see on the bass side. What I am seeing is that the neck is straight and it is the body - more specifically, the upper body/horns that are doing the rising. The upper horn is simply thicker on the bass side than on the lower horn.

In other words, this ain't your daddy's slab body P-bass that you could iron your laundry on. This beauty has curves for days. The body itself is clearly designed to reduced wood in certain areas by varying body thickness in certain areas across the entire body - not just a simple slab cut and well beyond simple rounded body edges. IMO, a brilliant and well thought out body shape. Doing it this way also allows for a fairly heavy density tone wood like mahogany (5-string at that) to come in at exactly 9lbs (my bass, YMMV). Kudos Ibanez.

Bass side:

Treble side:

Overall awesomeness :

 

[96tbird]

Nice to see that the mystery is solved: body contouring. I guess that returning it would have been a mistake. Glad so many discouraged such a foolhardy move. Seems anyone can learn something new anytime even despite years of working on a particular brand. The brand threw a curve ball and it was swing and a miss all over this thread.

 

[Solarmist]

^ That is really interesting - I've never seen that before - not even on newer model SR's.

 

[Jazz Ad]

It's hardly a new thing at Ibanez.
I had a SR800 20 years ago that was just like this.

 

[Cyborg]

I couldn't help but follow this thread from the previous one that was started. I have a brand new SR-705 - fantastic instrument and plays like a dream. I checked the neck pocket area and mine also looks like the OP's. BUT, I only looked at the bass side of the neck pocket the other day. Something more interesting occurred to me this morning after looking at the treble side of the neck pocket a little more closely.

Notice that the bass side "looks" like the neck is shimmed heavily. Well, look at the treble side - where did the angle go? It should be just as obvious on the treble side too if the neck were so drastically tilted - should it not? It's hard to tell in the pics, but there is a *very slight* rise on the treble side. It's tiny as compared to the bass side, but there. Now, if you were to continue the treble side body & horn out 4 more frets like you have on the bass side, you would see that the treble side would gradually rise up as if wanting to eventually meet the fingerboard like you see on the bass side. What I am seeing is that the neck is straight and it is the body - more specifically, the upper body/horns that are doing the rising. The upper horn is simply thicker on the bass side than on the lower horn.

In other words, this ain't your daddy's slab body P-bass that you could iron your laundry on. This beauty has curves for days. The body itself is clearly designed to reduced wood in certain areas by varying body thickness in certain areas across the entire body - not just a simple slab cut and well beyond simple rounded body edges. IMO, a brilliant and well thought out body shape. Doing it this way also allows for a fairly heavy density tone wood like mahogany (5-string at that) to come in at exactly 9lbs (my bass, YMMV). Kudos Ibanez.

Nice to see that the mystery is solved: body contouring. I guess that returning it would have been a mistake. Glad so many discouraged such a foolhardy move. Seems anyone can learn something new anytime even despite years of working on a particular brand. The brand threw a curve ball and it was swing and a miss all over this thread.

If that's the case on yours, then my treble side is worse because it's just as noticeable as the bass side of the neck. At first, I thought maybe it was body contouring or just a variation in cutting process but I don't think it's the case here. My SR505 is "contoured" as well and the neck does not look like this on either side.

The body is beautiful and fine but I think the neck on this thing left a lot to be desired. It's not as refined and smooth as my SR505. Something I didn't notice right away, is the saddles are pretty much maxed out on the height. I don't know if this is necessarily bad or not but it was something I noticed. Another thing, if you look at my first picture you'll notice a gray area on the neck wood in front of the heel. I found several of those areas on the neck. They feel different than the rest of the wood. I don't what it is but I didn't want to try and sand them off. Also, it actually had an area the felt like a splinter that caught my hand. The neck just doesn't feel like it was fully or maybe properly finished.

For grins and giggles, I had a brief conversation late last week with the person I bought my SR505 from and asked if she had anything done to the neck. I was curious if she had it sanded, polished, sealed or did anything to the neck to make play like butter. She replied no, and that it was the best playing Ibanez 5-string they had at the music store, so she bought it over the higher end ones.

After that I decided to go to Guitar Center to check out their current stock of Ibanez basses. They had a new SR405, SR505, SR600 and SR700 in stock. I know they are not exact comparisons but it was something to look at. The neck pockets looked the same as my SR505, in other words perfect looking. The finish of necks were all better than the SR705 I received with a obvious difference of the SR405 being a maple neck.

That sealed it for me and will be returning the bass today. At this point, I don't care if it's shimmed, body contoured, extra glue, etc. Ultimately, this progressed beyond the neck pocket and to likeability of the neck on this particular SR705. I don't like the feel of the neck and feel it's not up to snuff from what I expect from a mid-range priced Ibanez.