Boutique basses

[Teknoman]

Yikes! I,m getting a headache....

 

[Munjibunga]

... the appeal of boutique is as much to the ego of the buyer as to the rationality of the purchase argument.

... If all the world had were Fender basses, the music we listen to wouldn't sound all that much different than it does today. At the bottom line it's just a fact.

As the owner of at over ten boutique basses, I can't argue with either of these points (although your Sadowsky comment was a bit doofus). I buy them for deep, unresolved psychological reasons. However, they are functional works of art and technical marvels which appeal to my innermost sensibilities. I find great value in that.

 

[koipond]

It's a game of inches after a certain price point; and for some, those extra inches are worth the price premium. I have a Sterling and a AVRI P; and while there are things that I don't like about both, they are more than capable basses and are instruments I can grow into.

I see it as a more advanced version of first instrument syndrome: My first bass was a Yamaha BB300 and I loved that bass. The more I played it, the more I found things that I thought could be improved for my playing style. I upgraded to a Stingray and then a Sterling at the time when I outgrew my BB300.

I played a Sadowsky at NAMM a few years ago and I really couldn't tell too much difference from my current basses; but I think that has more to do with my lack of ability rather than the quality of the instrument. If I were to go back in time to the day I bought my first bass and played a BB 300 and Sadowsky back to back, I probably wouldn't be able to tell which instrument was better and would have got the one that looked cooler.

Many on this forum have played bass for a long time and have a very defined idea of what they want in a bass; and while I may not be able to notice differences between two basses, they probably can.

 

[peledog]

Anything is worth whatever you're willing to pay for it.

 

[JimmyM]

I couldn't be bothered. Did anyone say "whatever" yet?

 

[Mystic Michael]

Are they REALLY worth the money?

Do they really sound and play THAT much better or is it a status thing?

I've never played a boutique bass.

Lets say Fodera for instance, since they seem to be very popular. I have a friend with one who swears by it but I've never played it.

First thing: This is a very broad question, as any number of makes & models could meet the definition of "boutique" - depending very much on one's point of view.

Secondly, whether or not it's ultimately "worth it" depends very much on one's personal needs and desires, in addition to one's budget. So it's a very subjective question.

Thirdly - and perhaps most key in your case - is that it might behoove you to actually try out a few instruments that you consider boutique (i.e. conduct your own "due diligence") prior to posting the question here...because you might find that you'd already answered your own question.

My point is that there is no substitute for hands-on, personal experience - and that that experience ultimately trumps all. As a musician, you have to learn to trust your own experience, instincts, preferences & ears above everything else.

If after having tried out a number of boutique basses you still don't "get" the whole boutique thing, it then makes a lot more sense to query others for their experiences and viewpoints...

MM

 

[punkjazzben]

It's not for you to get. Your definition of "need or appreciation", which by definition is personal and subjective, doesn't have anything to do with how other people spend their money. What do you mean by "appreciation". Are you equating that to playing level? If so, then stop thinking that only people who can play are entitled to nice stuff. I just mess around with bass as a hobby but I have some instruments I'm guessing you would think I can't "appreciate". I say who cares if you are comning from a judmental place. These kind of comments always seem a little elitist to me.

I don't think you understood my last comment in context of the entire post. I said I actually support people who can justify and afford a special bass, much like a have no beef with people who collect nice cars as a hobby. You dont have to be a professional race car driver to appreciate them.

What I meant by my last comment was that I think there are probably a minority of people with more money than brains. I agree that you don't need certain skills to own whatever bass you want, but I do think you should be capable of telling the difference of a boutique bass in your hands (and ears) against a mass produced instrument.

 

[nukes_da_bass]

Seems to me I see this thread at least once a week worded slightly different. I only read one of the three pages, so if I'm repeating info posted by someone else please excuse me.

The search feature is wonderful!

 

[iJazz]

As the owner of at over ten boutique basses, I can't argue with either of these points (although your Sadowsky comment was a bit doofus). I buy them for deep, unresolved psychological reasons. However, they are functional works of art and technical marvels which appeal to my innermost sensibilities. I find great value in that.

Having just taken a peek at the Sadowsky web site I understand why exception to my comment has been made. From my perspective, though, the efforts there which are taken to explain the functional marketing positioning of their Tokyo offerings are as much political spin as they are factual declaration.

I am not suggesting that the Tokyo Sadowsky output equals or even approaches that of Fender's Squier operation. It seems obvious to me, however, that as a business move the establishment of the Metro was a solidly conceived profit motivated business stroke with market advantages over a simple expansion of on-shore expansion of production capacity. Am I really expected to believe that there is nowhere in America where the production of the reputed ultra-high Sadowsky quality of a solid body bass could occur? Sorry, I wasn't born yesterday. As growing businesses, mass marketers of a smaller scale, Sadowsky, apparently Lakland, and perhaps other supposed "boutique" manufacturers have taken to international production for business advantage and nothing more, which in my observation mimics the history of Fender, and thus my observation.

Looking more deeply at the Sadowsky site than I ever have, I see that they even offer rebranded NeoTek neoprene based straps to satisfy the demand for the Sadowsky brand lust. They also offer high quality arch-top six strings, only made in NY. In my eyes, that makes them a bass manufacturer with a boutique line of six string guitars. We can quibble over output numbers later.

I have a reasonable understanding of the concept of a boutique musical instrument operation in that Dad ran a drum shop out of our home basement for over 40 years. He did things no manufacturer could do simply based on the scale of his operation and the nature of some of the work he undertook in the course of his day to day work there. My first earnings ever were made taking apart drums at a quarter a piece. Good pay for a six year old in 1958.

I appreciate and respect your candor in response to my observations, Munjibunga. It is more than I suspect others are brave enough to offer. Seldom is it pretty when the curtain in Oz is pulled back.

iJazz - Just callin' them as I see them.

 

[lfmn16]

Why would a person who can both afford and appreciate a custom instrument be so insecure about it that a pot shot from some poor slob who lacks such refinement could possibly have an impact??

once again,

lol

The man doing all the hiding is talking about someone else being insecure?

And trust me, nothing you say could have any impact.

 

[TRichardsbass]

I want to make a distinction. In my mind Roger is not boutique, nor is Stewart or Mike. They are more what I would call custom. I think of Jens, Wyn, Carl Thompson as boutique. Even Kevin, with his crazy exotic topped creations.

Having said that, does the detail and attention given to making a Sadowsky justify its cost over say a Fender Custom shop bass? I would say yes, but it is really a close call. Does the cost of a Fodera reflect its true playing ability? Absolutely.

My Brubaker custom KXB-5 is made with woods that make it light and resonant, the neck profiles make playing this 5er a breeze, and the custom Bartolini electronics gives me 8 different pickup configurations along with both passive and active modes. I can also get the action incredibly low if I want it. You just can't get that out of a production bass. I could sell every one of my basses but the Brubaker and never need a specific bass to get a specific sound.

Over 35 years most of the basses I have accumulated first arrived because I wanted a particular sound or look. My collection is worth over $50k. My $4k Brubaker can do everything the collection does with the exception of my Danelectro. If Kev was in business 35 years ago maybe I'd only have spent $8k.

 

[jim777]

There isn't a carpenter alive who cannot do his job with a $20 Stanley; a $219 Stiletto TiBone is a luxury.

The 90-10 rule applies here. One need have no bias to realize the truth of that.

Funny though, how everything looks like a nail when all you've got is a hammer

 

[coyote1]

Hope y'all don't mind, I'm gonna ply all 'sides' of this discussion. Because there are a couple of boutique instruments that I would love to have, but simply cannot justify spending the $$$ - even though I could easily afford to do so. To me, it's a given that such an expenditure will come with spectacular playability and wide range of amazing sound. So then: Independent of the player's abilities of finances, what other qualities in an instrument justify such an outlay?

First IMO is that it has to be neck-through. A bolt-on neck for $4000?? Just doesn't seem right somehow, even if such a build helps generate the sound you desire. To me, it's almost as if you were buying an AstonMartin - and they put in vinyl seats, because they've found that their vinyl outperforms leather in apparent suppleness, visual beauty, and durability. Nope, if I want a bolt-on neck I can get that off the rack for a hundred bucks brand new.

Second is that it has to feel more substantial than an inexpensive bass. That of course is the opposite of my bicycling experience, where you're paying the maker to shave ounces, but weight does not really affect playability the way weight affects bike speed/performance. So while I don't want a 22 pound monster on my shoulder, the instrument has to feel substantial enough to not be just another cheap chunk of alder.

Third, it has to be awesome-looking.... without looking gaudy. I'm fully aware this is subjective, but just like the old joke about porn "I know it when I see it". And some pricey woods actually look cheap! Take spalted maple. Lots of it looks amazing... but many of the ESP LTD basses I've seen, as well as a few boutique items, tend to look like someone drew on the thing with a magic marker. So the top wood (and bottom wood equally) has to have a quality that clearly indicates this is not a $500 axe, while also not looking like a gaudy 1980s Italian dining room set.

Here are a few Marleaux that look great:

And here are two Mayones that don't (the center one is nice):

 

[nostatic]

iJazz - Just callin' them as I see them.

Instead of just reading websites, maybe you should play some of the instruments in question.

Brands are a part of our culture. You proudly proclaim the brands you're loyal too, yet decry the one's you don't like for whatever reason. That curtain in Oz has two sides...

 

[spade2you]

Instead of just reading websites, maybe you should play some of the instruments in question.

There are folks who can't hear/feel the difference. That's not the boutique bass's fault.

 

[SteveC]

The search feature is wonderful!

Unless you are looking for a DI, 4, 5, or 6 string bass.

 

[spade2you]

Especially since TB has never officially agreed on much. We still don't even know the best bass for metal!

 

[Davo-London]

I've got a different slant on this.

If you want to buy an acoustic cello or URB you need to be thinking $100,000 will get you a good instrument, but a really good instrument might be $300,000 +.

So frankly all bass guitars are "cheap".

Just depends on your perspective.

Peace
Davo

 

[nostatic]

There are folks who can't hear/feel the difference. That's not the boutique bass's fault.

Sure it is. If it costs that much, it should make me coffee and get me laid. And make me thinner and have more hair. In the right places.

Clearly boutiques are a fraud and a sham.

 

[jumbodbassman]

Anything is worth whatever you're willing to pay for it.

+1