Double Bass Bowing slurred double stops

[Les Fret]

I am revisiting the Nanny Dix etudes caprice again. Fairly challenging etudes for intonation I think. A life time study I guess.

All of them have extensive use of double stops. In some double stops you have to change multiple fingers at once and slur the double stop. I have a bit of trouble trouble getting a good consistent bowing sound when playing these. Cause either your lift your fingers up too soon or too late or you lift up one finger before the other and you hear some side noise from the bow.

For example in the last etude. You have to slur F#-C# (1-4) double stop to G-B (2-1).

Also after playing double stops for a longer time my bowing hand and thumb gets a bit painful.

Any tips on these issues?

 

[neilG]

I'm also revisiting these etudes. The double stop you mention cannot be, in the strictest sense, slurred using the printed fingering. (4th measure?) You can however, with practice, do it so quickly and smoothly that it sounds perfectly slurred. On the other hand, if you change that G-B to 4-2 you have a truly uninterrupted slur. Other than that sort of thing, fast hands and a steady bow will do the trick.
-Many of those fingerings are archaic, notably when it's the same fingering repeated in thumb position, like in line three of that etude. Find better fingerings.
-Practice the double stops without slurs at first.

As for your pain, without knowing of any technique issues, practice for shorter periods and stop and rest well before any pain sets in.

 

[the_Ryan]

I am revisiting the Nanny Dix etudes caprice again. Fairly challenging etudes for intonation I think. A life time study I guess.

All of them have extensive use of double stops. In some double stops you have to change multiple fingers at once and slur the double stop. I have a bit of trouble trouble getting a good consistent bowing sound when playing these. Cause either your lift your fingers up too soon or too late or you lift up one finger before the other and you hear some side noise from the bow.

For example in the last etude. You have to slur F#-C# (1-4) double stop to G-B (2-1).

Also after playing double stops for a longer time my bowing hand and thumb gets a bit painful.

Any tips on these issues?

In the left hand I would barre the F# and B so that I wouldn’t have to worry about taking my weight out of the string during the slur (which causes gaps/other noises). I would also practice the hammer on and pull off separately while playing both strings, e.g. starting with F#-C#, hammering 2 to G-C#, and then pulling off 4 to end on G-B or starting with F#-C#, pulling 4 off to F#-B, and then hammering 2 onto G.

With the bow I like to think about focusing my weight and speed on the lower note and just grazing the top note until both notes start to speak.

 

[Les Fret]

On the other hand, if you change that G-B to 4-2 you have a truly uninterrupted slur. Other than that sort of thing, fast hands and a steady bow will do the trick.
-

You mean 14 and then 42? In that case you have to lift up pinky.

I think most of the fingerings are quite good. There is just no easy way to play it.

What do you think of these etudes? I like them. Especially the double stop stuff first part of the etudes. The non double stop parts are less musical because it changes every bar without repeating stuff. But still very good to practice certain passages.

How are the etudes virtuosite compared to these etudes caprices?

 

[neilG]

You mean 14 and then 42? In that case you have to lift up pinky.

Yes, you lift you pinky and then play it again on the D string. Think of what's happening on the individual strings and you'll see this the the fingering that is truly slurred. The printed one can sound slurred, but it's not really.
On the G, you will play 4-2, no break in contact with the string. On the D, you'll play 1-4 with no break in contact with the string.

I think most of the fingerings are quite good. There is just no easy way to play it.

There are better fingerings IMO.

What do you think of these etudes? I like them. Especially the double stop stuff first part of the etudes. The non double stop parts are less musical because it changes every bar without repeating stuff. But still very good to practice certain passages.

I agree with you on those points.

How are the etudes virtuosite compared to these etudes caprices?

I haven't played them, but they look challenging, to say the least. On first glance they look more difficult.

 

[Les Fret]

Ok great post! Is there a sample somewhere of the etudes virtuosite? Do they also have double stops?

 

[s van order]

I am revisiting the Nanny Dix etudes caprice again. Fairly challenging etudes for intonation I think. A life time study I guess.

All of them have extensive use of double stops. In some double stops you have to change multiple fingers at once and slur the double stop. I have a bit of trouble trouble getting a good consistent bowing sound when playing these. Cause either your lift your fingers up too soon or too late or you lift up one finger before the other and you hear some side noise from the bow.

For example in the last etude. You have to slur F#-C# (1-4) double stop to G-B (2-1).

Also after playing double stops for a longer time my bowing hand and thumb gets a bit painful.

Any tips on these issues?

Re the pain, I found that in double stop etudes, until the left hand is confident and relaxed, there is a tendency to squeeze the bow in sympathy with tension in the left hand. You could try working the etudes pizz so you can fully focus on your left hand. Then work in the bow by playing two open strings at once to notice how good that feels. Try to capture those feels when you play the etude arco. In my experience, you do not need to work them for more than a few minutes a day, but must be consistent, and they eventually will benefit overall technique.

 

[neilG]

Ok great post! Is there a sample somewhere of the etudes virtuosite? Do they also have double stops?

20 Études de virtuosité (Nanny, Édouard) - IMSLP: Free Sheet Music PDF Download

 

[Les Fret]

Thanks Neil! Now that I see them I think I already have them. I think they are easier than the caprices. More scalar passages.

Re the pain, I found that in double stop etudes, until the left hand is confident and relaxed, there is a tendency to squeeze the bow in sympathy with tension in the left hand. You could try working the etudes pizz so you can fully focus on your left hand. Then work in the bow by playing two open strings at once to notice how good that feels. Try to capture those feels when you play the etude arco. In my experience, you do not need to work them for more than a few minutes a day, but must be consistent, and they eventually will benefit overall technique.

I agree. It is just harder for the bow hand to bow double stops I guess. You tend to squeeze harder because you want both strings to sound even. I also play these etudes pizz from time to time. That's also a good right hand practice.