Breaking in new cabs with "white noise"?

[spode master]

Ken, the only inherent problem I see with the "My Girl" break in technique is the drivers become acclimated to all natural notes. I like to alternate from "My Girl" to "Misty" in Eb. That way the speaker gets used to playing flats and will reproduce them at the same amplitude as naturals.

I'm making the assumption that your being facetious.

But if your serious, The suspension or cone of the speaker can't become predisposed to playing notes in certain keys, just because that's all you play.

 

[lbwdog]

I'm making the assumption that your being facetious.

That is a correct assumption.

 

[KJung]

Are you serious? Well a man can't be an expert in everything.

Very serious. While there used to be 'break in periods' for cars 'back in the day', not one of the new cars that I've purchased in the last 20 years has ANY recommended break in period at all. The most I've ever seen in the last 20 years is 'don't drive over 70 for multiple hours for the first 500 miles or so (although the Honda service manager says that also is a bit of a left over from the old days).

That's very similar to my recommendation for speakers.... take the cab out of the box, play it at moderate volume for a few minutes to make sure everything is OK, and then get it on a gig.

And, per Bill's post above, if the speaker loosens a bit and sounds better over the first few gigs, well, that would be a bonus, wouldn't it? I've never heard any cab 'open up' over time, or change significantly enough to notice. Interestingly, Jorg Schroeder makes a point that, unlike the Eminence drivers he used to use, the new Celestion Neo's seem to have very tight surrounds right out of the box, and he says the low end will extend a bit over time. I haven't noticed this, but again, he doesn't recommend a formal break-in period, but rather is just pointing out that the cab's low end might extend a bit more after a few gigs!

 

[KJung]

That is a correct assumption.

 

[bassmachine2112]

all i can say is-arrange these in the correct order
ocks ball
have a warm up in the house n go to a gig or practice and enjoy.

 

[jokerjkny]

All this talk of break-in really outlines that you need to check out a cabinet out in real life and not just in a store. Maybe it's part break-in, and part just getting used to the sound of the cab.

OR...

maybe a particular cab could have been on said showroom floor for quite a while, being slowly broken in by any random passerbys, slowly achieving full potential.

 

[KJung]

With the high XMAX Acmes, it's not the surrounds that get damaged.
It's the fact the surrounds are so stiff to start with, that if you slam them the too hard without proper break-in, the CONE flexes instead of the surround. This causes the infamous "creased cone" syndrome with the Acme drivers.

The cone gets a crease around the circumference, about an inch or so in from the surround.

There are tons of references around here about it (and tons of examples on the used market... and in Andy's returned "cores").

He has recently started using an upgraded driver to help alleviate this problem. Looks like it has a stiffer circumference area and a larger dust cover dome. I have no idea if this is an effective solution.

Just play nice for an hour or two and they'll be fine... it's no big deal.

Thanks for that clarification, and the upgrade to the speakers Andy uses is VERY good news IMO (assuming that it helps this situation). That cone creasing thing (broken in or not) has been a bit of an issue with those cabs for some.

 

[herndonbassist]

I have personally found this thread to be VERY confusing. People are talking about speaker break in time, but then I hear mention of "pull the cab out and use it". Are we talking about "cabs" or "speakers"? Each time I have purchased a cab new, I have asked, and been told that the speaker has been broken in. In the speakers that I have built, and installed "brand new from the factory" speakers, I have needed to break them in. In some cases, three were actual dead spots in the frequency range (tho these were lower wattage guitar speakers). I typically just do what the experts (and by that I mean the cab designers and speaker manufacturers) tell me to do.

As for the car thing... when I bought my Honda (9 months ago) the service manager told ME that the 500 mile "break in" period was very real due to the fact that cars are leaving the factory with specific types of oils and additives that need to be acclimated to temperature changes etc that come with the heating up of the engine. He mentioned that it had less to do w/ the actual engine and more to do w/ the fluids. Apparently they get filled with fluids, and typically aren't even started again for another month or 2. I am NOT an engine expert, just passing along what I was told.

FWIW... PLEASE DO take the cab out and play it. I can't believe how many cabs/basses/amps get sold here having been "never taken out of the house".

 

[KJung]

FWIW... PLEASE DO take the cab out and play it. I can't believe how many cabs/basses/amps get sold here having been "never taken out of the house".

+1 on that!

 

[billfitzmaurice]

unlike the Eminence drivers he used to use, the new Celestion Neo's seem to have very tight surrounds right out of the box!

That's not a positive. I've found Eminence to be on average within 5% of spec out of the box, needing minimal break-in to work to full potential. I once had some PAudio drivers that ran 25% high and were for all intents and purposes unusable without breaking in. Some things are best when tight, surrounds aren't.

Not totally OT automobile engines do break in. The initial tight fit of the parts causes higher friction. With a bit of wear the engine works better. My last three cars have all had gas mileage readouts and all three improved after 6 months or so of driving.

Each time I have purchased a cab new, I have asked, and been told that the speaker has been broken in.

By a salesperson trained to tell the customer what he wants to hear. It's possible that there are companies that break in their drivers or cabs, but I'm not aware of any,

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I use this for breaking in my cabs.

http://www.burninwave.com/generator_dl.htm

28Hz pure test tone (sine wave) for a few hours.

Adjust the volume before run the break in.

Subscribed to find this again. Cool program

 

[KJung]

That's not a positive. I've found Eminence to be on average within 5% of spec out of the box, needing minimal break-in to work to full potential. I once had some PAudio drivers that ran 25% high and were for all intents and purposes unusable without breaking in. Some things are best when tight, surrounds aren't.

Not totally OT automobile engines do break in. The initial tight fit of the parts causes higher friction. With a bit of wear the engine works better. My last three cars have all had gas mileage readouts and all three improved after 6 months or so of driving.
By a salesperson trained to tell the customer what he wants to hear. It's possible that there are companies that break in their drivers or cabs, but I'm not aware of any,

This is a great example of the fact that we all seem to be talking about two very different things.

1) Can things change over time (cars, speakers, etc.)?

I don't think anyone is saying that they don't, and as Jorg said, the Celestion's seem to behave differently out of the box, and hence take a bit of time to settle in versus the Eminence drivers used in the vast majority of bass cabs.

2) Do you have to perform some sort of fancy, formal break-in, like playing a special tone through a speaker at home, or playing programmed material through it for hours before use?

I believe most of us are saying no. In the case of the vast majority of speakers, play the darn things and be happy. After 4 or 5 (or 10) gigs, as you point out above, some speakers will sound exactly the same, others might extend a bit lower than right out of the box (assuming you got a new one and not one that had been pounded on in a retail store for a month before purchase).

So, to me, two different questions:

'Do you need to do some sort of formal speaker break-in?'.... the answer seems to be 'no' in the vast majority of cases.

'Will my speaker sound different after I play it for a while?'... the answer seems to be 'maybe', depending on the specific speaker brand and design used in various cabs.

Same thing with a modern car... will the gas mileage go up a bit over time... in most cased 'yes'. Do you need to do anything special to achieve this.... 'no'!

 

[herndonbassist]

By a salesperson trained to tell the customer what he wants to hear. It's possible that there are companies that break in their drivers or cabs, but I'm not aware of any,

Bill, I would NEVER believe a salesperson when it comes to anything related to the function of the product they're selling. No offense to salespeople (my brother's in sales). I also did/do not believe when I've called the manufactures and been told that the speakers were broken in. I was simply trying to point out that I leave these kinds of things to the experts. That being said, if YOU tell me that I need to break in new speakers AND cabs for that matter, you can bet money that I'm going to be doing it.

Thanks for all of you contributions here Bill!

 

[KJung]

Bill, I would NEVER believe a salesperson when it comes to anything related to the function of the product they're selling. No offense to salespeople (my brother's in sales). I also did/do not believe when I've called the manufactures and been told that the speakers were broken in. I was simply trying to point out that I leave these kinds of things to the experts. That being said, if YOU tell me that I need to break in new speakers AND cabs for that matter, you can bet money that I'm going to be doing it.

Thanks for all of you contributions here Bill!

Again, reference my post above. Bill is not saying that speakers NEED to be broken in by doing some special thing, but rather that the sound MIGHT change (or will change) over time in some cases (i.e., that speakers WILL break in). These are two different things.

I'm just trying to keep some poor schmo who is reading this stuff from thinking he/she has to play a CD through a cab before he or she can use it. That's just silly, but this idea has been promoted by a few TBers over and over, and it's just plain silly.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

That being said, if YOU tell me that I need to break in new speakers AND cabs for that matter

If you want to be sure that the cab's working as well as it can on that first gig, you do. Period. You don't have to break a cab in, and if you do just take it out and play it eventually it will work the way it's supposed to. Whether or not you want to take the trouble of being sure the cab works as well as it possibly can from set number one is up to you.

 

[Bassflute]

Breaking in a car's engine is another myth

Again, just get the thing on a gig. By the last set, for all practical purposes, the speaker will be 'broken in'. If the low end does tend to extend a touch more over the next few gigs (I've never hear this happen myself), what the heck, bonus.

I like Eden's break-in suggestion best... play the cab really loud for a couple of hours!!!!!!!

on all accounts.

You break in an engine gently to make sure the bearings don't unseat themselves. You break in a speaker gently to get the suspension working properly and not unseat it, as well. My Berg's sounded noticeably better after a month or so of quite heavy gigging. First few nights I didn't like them at all and thought I had made a mistake in buying them.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[Bassflute]

I've measured drivers with the fs 20% higher than spec prior to break in. That's hardly 'minor'.

(cue the strings - piano - plink-plink-plink-plink-plink-plink [12/8 - I-VI-II-V] Etta James enters...)

Bill and I agree on something!

A new day is dawning! Even as far back as my Trace amp in the late 80's the manual said to break in the speakers slowly by plugging a radio or some other full range sound source into it and playing it for 4-10 hours, and then to play the bass through it at moderate levels only for a few days. As have numerous stereos I have owned since the 70's.

Not to mention numerous car engines (my brother-in-law used to be an engine builder for Eddie Ervine's Dad's dirt track race team in the 60's and 70's - he knows engines - has built hundreds of them, and has done several rebuilds for me) and he ALWAYS breaks them in extremely carefully.

It's not a myth, folks. Neither of them.

Now if we could only get Bill to listen to my nice Virtual Dynamics power 3 cable that I won...



Cheers,
Cameron

 

[Bassflute]

Same thing with a modern car... will the gas mileage go up a bit over time... in most cased 'yes'. Do you need to do anything special to achieve this.... 'no'!

You're totally wrong on this. The bearings need to seat properly or you can spin them - I've seen it happen on one of my brother-in-laws brand new engines, requiring a complete strip-down and rebuild, and he was completely ****** at the person driving it for not taking it easy on it for the first 500 - 1,000 miles. It's surprizingly easy to do.

Cheers,
Cameron

 

[Mark Reccord]

(cue the strings - piano - plink-plink-plink-plink-plink-plink [12/8 - I-VI-II-V] Etta James enters...)

Bill and I agree on something!

A new day is dawning! Even as far back as my Trace amp in the late 80's the manual said to break in the speakers slowly by plugging a radio or some other full range sound source into it and playing it for 4-10 hours, and then to play the bass through it at moderate levels only for a few days. As have numerous stereos I have owned since the 70's.

For most drivers there really isn't a "break-in period" where you will damage them if you drive them hard. I can guarantee you that no-one in pro audio breaks in speakers before they use them on shows.

All speakers do take a bit of use to get them operating as per their specs. This is more audible in certain drivers and certain cabinets than in others. For example, the drivers in our speakers don't sound much different after their suspensions are broken in but my NV-610 sounded considerably different after some use.

Not to mention numerous car engines (my brother-in-law used to be an engine builder for Eddie Ervine's Dad's dirt track race team in the 60's and 70's - he knows engines - has built hundreds of them, and has done several rebuilds for me) and he ALWAYS breaks them in extremely carefully.

I don't know much about car engines but I can see a case being made for some break in of moving parts. The owner's manuals for the last two cars I've owned specifically said that there was no prescribed break-in period, but my fuel economy noticeably improved after putting 1000+km on them.

It's not a myth, folks. Neither of them.

Now if we could only get Bill to listen to my nice Virtual Dynamics power 3 cable that I won...



Cheers,
Cameron

You mean the one that was shown to be Romex in garden hose yet retails for $300?

 

[KJung]

on all accounts.

You break in an engine gently to make sure the bearings don't unseat themselves. You break in a speaker gently to get the suspension working properly and not unseat it, as well. My Berg's sounded noticeably better after a month or so of quite heavy gigging. First few nights I didn't like them at all and thought I had made a mistake in buying them.

Cheers,
Cameron

God help us all

Do you know ANYONE who has 'unseated' a brand new speaker, and do you know anyone that wrecked the engine of a new car by just driving it off the lot (except your brother-in-law!).

I again have never noticed any change in a speaker over time (although my new little 115 with a Celestion neo is marketed as opening up just a touch after some playing, so we shall see). Per Bill's comments, since the vast majority of bass cabs use Eminence drivers, and Bill indicates that they are pretty much ready to go out of the box, this makes sense to me.

Getting back to the cars, you would think that if there was a significant danger in somehow 'not breaking in a speaker or engine', the manufacturers would make a deal about it If these engines were failing at all and had to be replaced under warranty, you would see a break-in schedule on the driver's side window with a big skull and crossbones on it!

This is all a tempest in a teapot anyway. If it makes you feel better, slowly bring your speakers up to full volume, and drive your new car very carefully at 35 miles an hour for the first month. Me, I'll continue to take the speaker out of the box and blast it and get my new cars on a road trip the day I buy them. It's worked pretty well for me and about 95% of the bass players over the past 40 years or so

Edit: Again, if you reference my previous post, no one is saying that SOME speakers won't open up and sound different over time, just that you don't have to do anything 'special' to get there. Just play them and enjoy!