Brian Wilson/Carol Kaye

[SirMjac28]

When we were watching the movie I tried to tell me wife about Carol Kaye. I don't think she was as excited as I was. A woman very much holding her own in a man's world. A Carol Kaye movie would be great.

I was on youtube one day and came across a video that had "Victor Wooten and some old lady at NAMM." Half the comments were along the lines of "he is so nice talking to that grandma" but at least someone chimed and said "That is Carol Kaye, she is probably teaching Victor Wooten something."

I can't imagine what she had to go through in the beginning. I'm always disappointed when they talk about women pioneers her name is seldom or never mentioned.

 

[Bourbongangster]

Isn't that basically tic-tac bass?

Tic Tac Bass - (the style)

I was just scrolling through to see if anyone else said this yet. Sounds like that's what the OP is referring to. Per Wikipedia, ""Tic-tac bass" is a method of playing, in which a muted baritone guitar doubles the part played by the bass guitar or double bass. The method is commonly used in Tic Tac Bass - (the style)."

 

[matty1039]

They were not talking about Tic-Tac, since the electric was in one key and the upright was in another. I think someone else right when they said it was orchestral. Something with the upright playing the root and the electric playing the perfect fifth.

 

[Atshen]

Then it would simply be harmonizing. Or maybe counterpoint?

 

[danosix]

Motown experimented with two basses on some tracks...Some with Jamerson and Bob Babbitt, and a few with Jamerson and Tony Newton. Babbitt had stated that they really didn't come off well and sounded quite muddy...I suppose it could have something to do with Motowns recording equiptment and engineers just used to doing things a certain way, not conducive to certain types of recording innovation...or perhaps the parts were not written to emphasize the separation necessary for achieve good sonic quality???

That and Jamerson's tone was very similar (sonic-space wise) to an upright - Carol Kaye o Joe Osborne (or the guy who played the tic-tac on Patsy Cline records) went for a deliberately different sonic space with a strong attack from the pick so they parts complimented each other - on Patsy records the bass guitar was deliberately UNbassy so the click would show when played through little transistor radio speakers.
The sound is so effective I've found I can trick the audience's ears by playing ONLY tic-tac (since I can't play both) into hearing an upright.

 

[danosix]

Isn't that basically tic-tac bass?

Tic Tac Bass - (the style)

No - Even though I mentioned tic tac in my post before I read yours - Carol was encouraged to play complimentary parts to the upright - taking advantage of the differences in the two instruments. Tic Tac basically DOUBLEs the upright bass line to make it more present - Carol was playing a second bass line.

 

[danosix]

Then it would simply be harmonizing. Or maybe counterpoint?

Counterpoint more than harmonizing.

 

[Rayjay]

Definitely NOT in harmony, or 2 different keys. EB, DB and tic-tac bass all playing the same part. Or, as @danosix mentioned, EB is embellishing.

Check out a band called the Fendertones. They reproduce a lot of this stuff live. Cool videos too.

Check out a movie - The Wrecking Crew. Good explanations of what they did in the studio

 

[tpaul]

I think do WACKA do WACKA
might cover it

Or tiddley POM, tiddley POM, tiddley tiddley POM.

 

[matty1039]

Pretty interesting. So Tic-Tac and the Wall of Sound approach used the same basslines on two instruments which would have been the standard at the time. Sounds like here they were going with two instruments, two basslines for a counterpoint or harmony.

 

[Slevage]

Google tick tock bass.

Electric w/pick, upright pizzicato. Very 60's country. Listen to some Ray Price recordings.

 

[RichardW]

here's a good explanation of the Walk on the Wild Side bass line(s).


Tons of YouTube vids about Carol Kaye...

 

[cchorney]

What's a progression? That sounds fancy. We don't like us nonea that fancy stuff.</bluegrass>

Sure you do. The progression is 1 5 1 5 1 5 1 5 1 5.....

 

[JaketheB]

Fantastic film. I've had Pet Sounds on repeat since watching it.

 

[Celtic59]

Heck, the band Marmalade actually had 2 bassists, one on a p-bass and one on a fender 6, sometime he was on acoustic guitar as needed.
I love putting 2 bass lines down, using an upright and a Danelectro was pure Wrecking Crew stuff, and with these Squier 6-string basses out, it's easy to afford a 6'er to use with a nice boomy 4-string in the studio.

 

[pfschim]

Sting/The Police did quite a bit of doubling electric and upright parts on their recordings too. Gives a very nice deep tone. I think it was always just doubling the parts, not bass harmonies.

 

[CalBuzz51]

I do this too, pick and hand mute on the bridge for country songs on a thumpy short-scale bass sounds like tic-tac.

"Close Up The Honky Tonks" by Buck Owens is an example where the Bass and Bari are playing different lines ("same key I think...") that co-mingle around.

 

[DirkP]

Are we talking about parts like this from "God Only Knows" as an example?
(Starting 1:03)

 

[JxBass]

They were not talking about Tic-Tac, since the electric was in one key and the upright was in another. I think someone else right when they said it was orchestral. Something with the upright playing the root and the electric playing the perfect fifth.

That's how I remember it in the movie, that Carol's comment had to do with the other bass line being in a different key. I saw it months ago so my memory could be a bit foggy.

 

[ThuzzleFump]

If I'm playing DUM dum DUM dum and so on what would the other bassist be playing?

"brown chicken brown cow brown chicken brown cow," I think