Bridging the Music: Scam or legitimate?

[Joe Louvar]

Why are folks so skeptical? I think it's because most working musicians have never played a ticket-selling gig. For this reason, it's not credible that ticket-selling is a necessary or even beneficial step towards developing a musician or a band.

+1. Yep

You've gotten a lot of harsh responses. I don't think it's your fault. It's just that the subject matter itself is controversial. For this reason, I hope that you still feel welcome at TB, and that you will stick around and keep us posted on how things go!

Actually, I think this is a more actuate account of why ~

Originally Posted by Bass Pounder
The rest of us enlightened people prefer to try to run a-holes like BTM (and other pay to play scams) out of business.

 

[lustersilk]

What I'm getting here is, it is not the job of the PROMOTER to PROMOTE.

So what IS their job?

Stand at the door and collect money, that has been my experience.

 

[MonkeyBass]

I'm sure many of you that bash BTM have never worked with them or even lived In their primary market Denver, it's not fair to them that you diminish their image by making accusations online.

I live in Denver. I was in a band about a decade ago that did a show with these weasels when they were called... whatever they used to be called. It was a complete joke. We saw the scam coming and played the show anyway, to an empty room. I'm happy to say we didn't sell anything to any of our fans. Their "door guy"/"company representative" left as soon as he got the money and didn't hear a note any band played that afternoon. Yes AFTERNOON. It was a Sunday afternoon, not even a night gig. They didn't make a poster, they didn't put anything on their website, the venue where we played was empty and only had a bar tender that looked like she wanted to go home and sleep.

And to touch on the subject of the prestige of playing at Cervantes. For those of you who don't live in Denver, Cervantes is a club owned buy a guy that owns a bunch of Man Of LaMancha themed venues except they all have Grateful Dead stuff plastered all over the inside. I booked a show with them (myself, didn't need BTM to do it) and the people at Cervantes kept changing the date, the venue (small room or big room) and the time. They put an ad in one paper saying we started at 9 and the next paper said we started at 10. When our fans asked when we were supposed to go on all I could say was "I'm not sure." We ended up playing in the big room (which I knew we couldn't fill in the first place, which is why I booked the small room) to 5 people and they kept our guarantee because apparently it was our mistake that they screwed up so much.

I've since boycotted every venue that guy owns (Dulcineas, Quixotes, Sancho's Broken Arrow, and Cervantes). He screwed me over so badly that I'll never forgive him. I won't even see a friend's band at anything he owns because I don't want to give him my beer money.

 

[lfmn16]

Stand at the door and collect money, that has been my experience.

My experience has been that they try to get YOU to do all the work and THEY collect all the money.

 

[mellowinman]

This is my favorite thread on talkbass. And the more I go back and read all the posts, the more I think that no one in their right mind should be involved with Bridging the Music. It is a sucker bet, from the word go.

And I hear they don't bathe.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

[the_stone]

This is my favorite thread on talkbass. And the more I go back and read all the posts, the more I think that no one in their right mind should be involved with Bridging the Music. It is a sucker bet, from the word go.

And I hear they don't bathe.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

+1

 

[mb1923]

Thanks fdeck you seem to be the only constructive and helpful person on this thread. Everyone else seems to twist my words around.

I'm not saying I'm an expert I'm just a college student trying to figure out the business, I've done four shows through this company and have improved in playing on stage and also networking and getting people to come see me. They provided a good venue a sound guy and venue staff willing to sit through a bunch of sub par sets, and I had fun even if I put my own money into it. I care more that my friends got to see me perform because I haven't been able to get gigs anywhere else yet.

I'm not saying it's not their job to promote acts. They put on bigger shows and promote established acts who may be touring or have a following. This is what they are mainly promoting shows and bands that have potential to profit.

Besides these main shows they put on off night showcases. These feature a bigger volume of musicians who may not be as talented and may not have the drive like I did to bring people in. If you can prove that you have the desire to work your way past the initial phase of selling tickets and promoting yourself than you can move past playing an empty room and find better opporunities.

Like I said playing at these shows may not have been the best turnout and i spent my own money but I try to use it to my advantage by getting a good YouTube video of my drunk friends cheering for me with a nice light show, or by networking with other musicians I meet there. BTM has seen me progress show to show and each time has gotten I've gotten better time slots and got more money back from ticket sales.

Many people have bad experiences but there are some who have good ones and that move up from the bottom rung of paying and selling because they are passionate bout sharing their music with others.
I don't expect the promoter to have a full house for the showcases and promote me very much because I am not as talented as their larger and profitable acts, it takes time and work to start drawing people.

If these forums represent countless years of experience the people posting on it could at least offer more constructive advice of how their bands moved up or got better gigs other than posting vague responses. Pointing out grammatical errors in peoples posts or saying dumb stuff like they don't shower and making accusations doesn't help at all. I'd like to hear your stories of how your bands started out and how you all got people to come see you play huge shows. You could at least have the decency of not going out of your way to be a total dick to people online

 

[the_stone]

Thanks fdeck you seem to be the only constructive and helpful person on this thread. Everyone else seems to twist my words around.

I'm not saying I'm an expert I'm just a college student trying to figure out the business, I've done four shows through this company and have improved in playing on stage and also networking and getting people to come see me. They provided a good venue a sound guy and venue staff willing to sit through a bunch of sub par sets, and I had fun even if I put my own money into it. I care more that my friends got to see me perform because I haven't been able to get gigs anywhere else yet.

I'm not saying it's not their job to promote acts. They put on bigger shows and promote established acts who may be touring or have a following. This is what they are mainly promoting shows and bands that have potential to profit.

Besides these main shows they put on off night showcases. These feature a bigger volume of musicians who may not be as talented and may not have the drive like I did to bring people in. If you can prove that you have the desire to work your way past the initial phase of selling tickets and promoting yourself than you can move past playing an empty room and find better opporunities.

Like I said playing at these shows may not have been the best turnout and i spent my own money but I try to use it to my advantage by getting a good YouTube video of my drunk friends cheering for me with a nice light show, or by networking with other musicians I meet there. BTM has seen me progress show to show and each time has gotten I've gotten better time slots and got more money back from ticket sales.

Many people have bad experiences but there are some who have good ones and that move up from the bottom rung of paying and selling because they are passionate bout sharing their music with others.
I don't expect the promoter to have a full house for the showcases and promote me very much because I am not as talented as their larger and profitable acts, it takes time and work to start drawing people.

If these forums represent countless years of experience the people posting on it could at least offer more constructive advice of how their bands moved up or got better gigs other than posting vague responses. Pointing out grammatical errors in peoples posts or saying dumb stuff like they don't shower and making accusations doesn't help at all. I'd like to hear your stories of how your bands started out and how you all got people to come see you play huge shows. You could at least have the decency of not going out of your way to be a total dick to people online

While I won't try to re-iterate all the points people have made before, let me ask you this: from working with BTM, have you gained any experience or understanding of the music industry that you couldn't or wouldn't have received had you not worked with them?

I think the reason so many responses here have been against BTM is because most of us on here, whether we're professional players, weekend warriors, or just playing-in-our-bedroom players, have achieved whatever level of success we have without the "services" that a company like BTM provides. That's great that you were able to get up on stage and play a venue - does your scene not have open mic/jams at any clubs where you can do that for free? Does your scene not have venues where brand-new acts and people with little to no experience have the chance to get on stage on their own accord? Can't you go to shows of other bands and meet people and network that way?

For my part, my skepticism derives from the fact that, for all the supposed "usefulness" of a company like BTM, I have yet to see any account of a band/person moving up in the industry due to an advantage gained by working with them, versus doing the work themselves. You say you're trying to figure out the business? Great - figure it out and learn how to do things yourself, because in the long run you'll be much better off than handing over money to a company solely for the opportunity to get on stage and potentially have people hear your music.

 

[Passinwind]

If these forums represent countless years of experience the people posting on it could at least offer more constructive advice of how their bands moved up or got better gigs other than posting vague responses.

Two suggestions, make of them what you will:

Read through the stickied FAQ section for the Band Management forum here.

Consider filling out your profile and posting in some other threads not directly related to slagging/defending a pay-to-play broker. I would bet that your experience here would have been much different had you started out that way...

 

[mellowinman]

Thanks fdeck you seem to be the only constructive and helpful person on this thread. Everyone else seems to twist my words around.

I'm not saying I'm an expert I'm just a college student trying to figure out the business, I've done four shows through this company and have improved in playing on stage and also networking and getting people to come see me. They provided a good venue a sound guy and venue staff willing to sit through a bunch of sub par sets, and I had fun even if I put my own money into it. I care more that my friends got to see me perform because I haven't been able to get gigs anywhere else yet.

I'm not saying it's not their job to promote acts. They put on bigger shows and promote established acts who may be touring or have a following. This is what they are mainly promoting shows and bands that have potential to profit.

Besides these main shows they put on off night showcases. These feature a bigger volume of musicians who may not be as talented and may not have the drive like I did to bring people in. If you can prove that you have the desire to work your way past the initial phase of selling tickets and promoting yourself than you can move past playing an empty room and find better opporunities.

Like I said playing at these shows may not have been the best turnout and i spent my own money but I try to use it to my advantage by getting a good YouTube video of my drunk friends cheering for me with a nice light show, or by networking with other musicians I meet there. BTM has seen me progress show to show and each time has gotten I've gotten better time slots and got more money back from ticket sales.

Many people have bad experiences but there are some who have good ones and that move up from the bottom rung of paying and selling because they are passionate bout sharing their music with others.
I don't expect the promoter to have a full house for the showcases and promote me very much because I am not as talented as their larger and profitable acts, it takes time and work to start drawing people.

If these forums represent countless years of experience the people posting on it could at least offer more constructive advice of how their bands moved up or got better gigs other than posting vague responses. Pointing out grammatical errors in peoples posts or saying dumb stuff like they don't shower and making accusations doesn't help at all. I'd like to hear your stories of how your bands started out and how you all got people to come see you play huge shows. You could at least have the decency of not going out of your way to be a total dick to people online

Because you've been so honest with us, right?

Let's have a link to that YouTube video, OK?

 

[Joe Louvar]

Two suggestions, make of them what you will:

Read through the stickied FAQ section for the Band Management forum here.

Consider filling out your profile and posting in some other threads not directly related to slagging/defending a pay-to-play broker. I would bet that your experience here would have been much different had you started out that way...

+1. ^^^ This is very advice.

 

[Bass Viking]

Because you've been so honest with us, right?

Let's have a link to that YouTube video, OK?

Here it is (from post #89): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUJVd6sMxgE&feature=youtu.be

Frankly, I don't think it's promo quality.

 

[fdeck]

If these forums represent countless years of experience the people posting on it could at least offer more constructive advice of how their bands moved up or got better gigs...

I can't claim to be a full time pro, but I've been gigging on and off for 30+ years. Presently, I perform 2 - 3 times a month while also juggling my day job and family life.

Possibly the most important factor is to develop your musical abilities. You want to be good enough that other people would want you in their band, even if you're running your own band. If you plan on developing your own repertoire, you want your songwriting to be good enough that other musicians want to play your songs. Don't rule out lessons. While I was in college, I took bass lessons for credit towards the liberal arts portion of my degree.

Truth be told, most musicians probably gain their initial performing experience in some sort of "sheltered" environment. I played in school bands and a community orchestra before I ever got my first call for a paid gig. The first serious bands that I played in consisted of older players who took me under their wing because they needed a bassist. But these environments have an important feature: I was learning from people who had a vested interest in my success, either because they were paid to teach me, or because they were performing alongside me. On the other hand, those bands knew that I could play their material.

My suggestion would be to keep practicing and learning while you look for a band that's either established, or formed of experienced players. Once in, you could volunteer to handle some of the booking. Most bands would be delighted to have one more band member willing to hustle gigs. Beyond that, see where it goes.

The great unknown about the P2P gigs is whether they confer any worthwhile learning. Unfortunately, "training" that you pay for, but that nobody seems to value, is the basis for countless scams that reach far beyond the music business.

 

[bolophonic]

The great unknown about the P2P gigs is whether they confer any worthwhile learning. Unfortunately, "training" that you pay for, but that nobody seems to value, is the basis for countless scams that reach far beyond the music business.

While I think that pay-to-play gigs are generally stinky for the type of music I am into, I do think that there is some benefit to a gigging musician to doing one early in their career. Just like any career that relies on experience, nobody learns everything without some down-sides.

 

[mb1923]

Well first off I just want to say that my intentions for posting wasn't to undermine your thoughts and experiences in the business. And I apologize if you think I'm imposing on your community/site.

I just trying to explain that by putting in my own work to promote myself, BTM rewarded me with better and longer set times, gave me more money back on ticket sales, and gave me good advice on how to expand my playing. Not the worst deal for someone like me.

If you saw my video you notice I do looping, that started just by practicing in my basement and I have improved a lot since my first 15 minute time slot, and now after doing these shows I have learned how to make that work better live and onstage with a bigger sound system. BTM gave me info on similar electronic/ jam artists that do the same thing that I didn't know of and could research, they have helped explain what types of programs I could use to make better beats, or types of gear to look into than just my basic setup. They just didn't take my money and walk out.

If I didn't have any of these little shows, I wouldn't have set as many goals in my playing. Doing these every so often gives me something to look forward to and has helped me maintain the small fan base that I have. My videos may not be promo quality, (idk if that means super hd, you didn't like my style of playing, you think I suck...) but I've used that to find the band I started working with, get a a couple other shows, And to get a great guitar teacher. I tried to do everything I can to find value out working with BTM and to advance a bit show to show, and for me getting monetary value back is not my primary focus right now. I'm sure in time that will come as our band develops our own DIY projects in which we have big plans.

Also to monkeybass I think that was you. If you are referring to jay bianchi the owner of the grateful dead theme bars, he doesn't own Cervantes anymore he sold it in 2009, that's why it's called the other side and Not quixotes anymore. Quixotes has a different location now, he has Sanchos, and just opened an other one near mile high stadium the donkey O.T. I don't know when you played, what happened, Not trying to start another controversy here...

If you want to check out my music, blog, projects, studio, let me know because I don't feel the need to post on this thread anymore.
Once again sorry for any fuel I added to the fire about this issue, I wish you all best of luck in whatever it is you do with your music

 

[Joe Louvar]

Once again sorry for any fuel I added to the fire about this issue, I wish you all best of luck in whatever it is you do with your music

Yeah, "Bridging The Music" is just another "pay to play" scam - and BTM really needs to read the TB commercial use rules and etc.

Anyway, before you run - at least checkout the FAQ http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f67/c...-successful-bands-band-relations-more-819038/ - you'll learn more.

 

[Bass Viking]

I just trying to explain that by putting in my own work to promote myself, BTM rewarded me with better and longer set times, gave me more money back on ticket sales, and gave me good advice on how to expand my playing. Not the worst deal for someone like me.

If you saw my video you notice I do looping, that started just by practicing in my basement and I have improved a lot since my first 15 minute time slot, and now after doing these shows I have learned how to make that work better live and onstage with a bigger sound system. BTM gave me info on similar electronic/ jam artists that do the same thing that I didn't know of and could research, they have helped explain what types of programs I could use to make better beats, or types of gear to look into than just my basic setup. They just didn't take my money and walk out.

If I didn't have any of these little shows, I wouldn't have set as many goals in my playing. Doing these every so often gives me something to look forward to and has helped me maintain the small fan base that I have. My videos may not be promo quality, (idk if that means super hd, you didn't like my style of playing, you think I suck...) but I've used that to find the band I started working with, get a a couple other shows, And to get a great guitar teacher. I tried to do everything I can to find value out working with BTM and to advance a bit show to show, and for me getting monetary value back is not my primary focus right now. I'm sure in time that will come as our band develops our own DIY projects in which we have big plans.

“It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.” - Mark Twain

Sorry to be harsh but reading through your post I don't see anything that BTM provided that you couldn't do yourself. Some day you'll look back on this thread and realize that.

BTM gave me info on similar electronic/ jam artists that do the same thing that I didn't know of and could research, they have helped explain what types of programs I could use to make better beats, or types of gear to look into than just my basic setup. They just didn't take my money and walk out.

This information is out there, why not just search on the internet?

As someone already mentioned, if you want to play out why not hit the open mikes?

Regarding your video, I was referring to the technical aspects. The camera is so far away you can't even see your face, the video is too long, etc. Why not just film a short video in your home?

 

[lfmn16]

There is an art to giving someone a shtuppin' and getting them to thank you for it. Someone has convinced these chumps that they are getting a good deal. Maybe we could get the name of a band or two who has actually "made it" though this company.

 

[BawanaRik]

$6.50?
How can they afford prizes, advertising, etc. if they can't even cover this minor cost?

This would be my question.

Remember that scaming a hundred people out of 6.50 each is a good living wage in many parts of the world.

Google them and see what you get.

 

[BawanaRik]

First (admittedly, cynical) thing I think is they collect $6.50 from a bunch of people and then don't ever actually put on the show for whatever reason and hedge their bets that not many people are going to fuss over $6.50 and walk away with the profit.

Did you ever see the Producers?