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Bruford or White?

YES drummer: Bruford or White

  • Bill Bruford

    Votes: 56 75.7%

  • Alan White

    Votes: 18 24.3%
  • Total voters
    74
#21
For the record, this was discussed pretty recently... http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/bill-bruford-alan-white-851138/ Not to say "do a search," it's always worth continuing the conversation, but just so's folks knows.

MysticMichael said:
I agree with Lo-E, Freddy. I've always related to drummers with very distinct, idiosyncratic styles, who think & play way out of the box - such as Bill Bruford & Ginger Baker, to name just two (though their individual styles are quite different).

While I see where you're going with this, I do think it's a bit facile to categorize Bruford's playing as "jazzy" - even though he does love & play jazz, simply because "jazz" or "jazzy" has become such a catch-all for any genre or style of music that is highly technical, complex, math-based, nuanced, and/or which can't easily or obviously be put into any other category.

To my mind, when Bruford plays with rock musicians, he plays rock - just as when he plays with jazz musicians, he plays jazz. It's just a style of rock that's way more sophisticated and evolved than that of the vast majority of rock drummers.

MM
Click to expand...

Except that when the guys in Yes talk about it, what THEY always say is that Bruford was a jazz guy. My understanding is that when Bruford first replied to Yes' ad in Melody Maker he was under the impression he was auditioning for a jazz combo - only later did he realize the mistake (but kept playing, thank goodness). When Chris Squire was asked in an interview if he had any jazz influence on his playing, he answered, "No, but I had to work with Bill Bruford, so there was jazz influence there." Bruford said of that early Yes stuff that he was playing tu-tu-taah, tu-tu-taah when all the other drummers were playing boom-boom-chick. In the ultimate final product, sure, he played with rock bands so it was rock drumming by default, but "jazzy" isn't just a label some outsider tagged him with, it's how he defined himself and how his bandmates saw him.
 
#22
mapleglo said:
And then there's Close to the Edge, from the album of the same name, and Yessongs again. I think White simply does a better job, with a fuller sound.
Click to expand...

Whether one prefers Bruford's sound & style or White's sound & style will always be a matter of personal taste. But Bruford was the one who developed those parts for the Close To The Edge album. IMO, that fact alone simply speaks volumes about the quality of Bruford's musicianship. :cool:

MM
 
#23
hrodbert696 said:
Except that when the guys in Yes talk about it, what THEY always say is that Bruford was a jazz guy. My understanding is that when Bruford first replied to Yes' ad in Melody Maker he was under the impression he was auditioning for a jazz combo - only later did he realize the mistake (but kept playing, thank goodness). When Chris Squire was asked in an interview if he had any jazz influence on his playing, he answered, "No, but I had to work with Bill Bruford, so there was jazz influence there." Bruford said of that early Yes stuff that he was playing tu-tu-taah, tu-tu-taah when all the other drummers were playing boom-boom-chick. In the ultimate final product, sure, he played with rock bands so it was rock drumming by default, but "jazzy" isn't just a label some outsider tagged him with, it's how he defined himself and how his bandmates saw him.
Click to expand...

Fair enough... :hmm:

MM
 
#25
Can't remember if I said this or just read this and agreed (LOL!) but the important distinction for me is that Bill Bruford deserves a place in the canonical list of phenomenal drummers in spite of his work with Yes.

His playing in Yes was certainly unique, distinctive, interesting, and appropriate...but it wasn't until he had logged a few albums with King Crimson and his own Bruford quartet that Bill truly developed a style, a voice, and a set of chops worthy of most of the accolades now lauded upon him.

I love his playing, he's one of my favorite drummers on earth ever...but whenever the "Bruford vs White?" question comes up I find myself thinking Bill's playing on Yes albums was only just "effective". Which is also exactly how I'd describe Alan White's contribution to most Yes albums.

So it's a tie.
 
#26
Excellent point. With Yes, Bruford sounded like a good drummer with occasional flashes of brilliance (that snare sound at the end of Roundabout!)

And then there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy3UiXb2uDQ
Right around 2:00, gives me the chills...
And I love the way that when the band is building the dymanics, Bruford pulls back and plays MORE behind the beat instead of pushing, what a great feel.
 
#29
Bruford is great.
IMHO his work with Genesis sucked badly. It was like he never bothered to learn the songs at all. A casual fan would have been a better fill in, at least they would have taken it more seriously. Bruford was way to haphazard and distracting. The sounboard recordings of that tour were evidence. :hiding:

OTOH he fit perfect in King Crimson
 
#33
I chose White. Just a personal preference. I really dig them both a lot. I guess I just think of White as the guy who stuck with the band a lot more. I always thought Bruford wasn't too fond of any of these guys.

Alan White had to fill some pretty big shoes, and I think he did a great job of it, and really, he is just more "Rock," and that's what Yes is, a ROCK band. They are not a jazz band, and shouldn't be.

I just like Alan White better. I still think Close to the Edge is their best album, though.
 
#36
I always thought that old Phil Collins...before he sold out, when he was a drummer (and one of my favorite rock drummers...it's a shame he wanted to sing more than play the drums),would have been a great hybrid for Yes. Syncopation of Bruford with the rockier style of White.

But I voted Bruford. Love him playing with Collins on Cinema Show off Seconds Out.
 
#37
With Yes I think Bruford and White were both excellent. But as others have said Bruford work outside of Yes is really amazing. He has a more distinctive style than White.

Plus he is my dog's namesake.

Meet Bruford the dog.

WP_20130919_001.jpg
 
#38
When Yes played in Memphis in 1972,i was already a huge fan of BB's sound and style,and i was totally surprised and disapointed when he did not walk out on stage that night. For about 1 minute. Alan brought a completely different driving emphasis to Yes's sound,and it was thrilling to hear. (Just listen to Yessongs).
I got to finally witness BB with UK years later,which was a brilliant band,and he was excellent in it. The only other time i saw him play was with ABWH,with Tony Levin,and that was a great combination,but his e-kit,and a dumbed-down approach to playing the Yes classics,as well as the new material,left a lot to be desired,as far as i was concerned. The more he moved to jazz,which he always claimed was his thing in all the rock bands he played in,the less i liked what he was doing,despite his excellent technique. The band Bruford was excellent,and the last listenable link for me. His work with KC was great for the first 3-4 albums,then it just got too electronic for me.And that was a loong time ago.
So.....no favorite here. The first 5 yes albums are incredible for drums,but i also love everything AW has done with them.....music that BB would probably not have contributed as intersting or intricate parts to,because it wasn't "jazz" enough for him.
 
#39
I go with Bruford - he's a more rounded, skillful, versatile drummer. Loved the stuff he did with King Crimson later.

THAT being said, White did a great job replacing him and though his style was different, it fit in with what Yes did at that point perfectly.

My favorite Yes album is Relayer (surprise?) and although I really wish it had Bruford and Wakeman, it probably would sound very different without White and Moraz.
 

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