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'Budget' 6 String Fretless: Is there one?


Sort of on my radar...SUPER cheap at $232 with shipping. The real question is, how will my experience with it be in comparison to something like a used Carvin at $500ish? While I like a great deal as much as anyone, I'm worried that it's $232 then 400$ worth of tech work and upgrades to make the action playable and the fingerboard true?

a good defret, from my experience, costs hundreds of dollars. at least in canada. probably my costs was based on complexity of the particular instrument. binding, neck through, things like that can make it harder, for example.

Yeah, I had my Dingwall done...twice. The first one was a few hundred dollars and was OK...but there was some things I didn't like and the second job ended up being around 300-400...but they had to uninlay the neck and re-do it.

Based from my experience and from what you're using currently, You'll need a certain build quality to check out a concept like a 6 string fretless.
To determine if you like a 6 string fretless, the specimen you're using must be able to hold a candle against your high end boutique basses or all you will find out is that you don't like to play cheap basses that are inferior to your Dingwalls in every aspect.

When I took my first dive into 6 strings, I bought an Ibanez BTB because I liked how it felt and played. It was the first singlecut, the 686sc, so in today's terms of BTB making a mid-model with the good wood but their house-electronics instead of the nordy pickups. It took me a while to reach the point where 6 strings felt natural and I actually preferred playing the Ibby over my more expensive, nicer made 5 string basses. It took me even longer to start noticing how some of the notes lacked a certain something and I started debating gutting it and dropping in Nordstrand pickups and a Glockenklang preamp.
In the end, I just bought a nicer bass and sold it, but I was happy with that bass and I'm grateful Ibanez made it. The guy I sold it to, by the way, told me he initially planned to use it to defret it to get a good fretless, but was yet undecided about keeping it intact.

I know Ibanez made a BTB 6 string fretless not too long ago, but their current website does not list any.
The used market is full of BTB's, though (I guess that's true for most countries).
I'd get one of the nicer models. I've never fully understood their product codes. The last number being a 5 or 6 (or 7) correlates to the number of strings. The first two numbers somehow indicate quality, a bigger number is better. Try and find the nicest one within your budget and have your guy pull off the frets.

Trying to stay cheap to see if the transplant 'takes'... which of course means that if I did really like it I'd be thinking about having someone build me a 6 and spend actual real dollars on it. In that timeline the money I spend now is more research funding rather than playing cash. Right now the Carvin seems to be close to fitting the bill. I've always thought they made a decent bass, probably cheaper than it should have been...and they're usually undervalued on the used market. I think there's the BTB and a second Ibanez that are in that 1000$ range.

I have a spector legend 6 that i picked up very cheap and upgraded the electronics. Later i then did a fretless conversion on it.. Cheap, quality, 6 and fretless. Was a fun project and it is a really killer bass!

I wouldn't mind one of these...Seem like once you get the bass + conversion though, it's sitting at over $1000, which is more than I'm really looking to go on this.

Warwick Rockbass Corvette?

RB sometimes get a bashing round here but the newer models are of good quality.

(the usual comeback is “buy a used German one” but for a FL 6er i’m not sure there are many hot deals on these - ?)

EDIT here’s a link to an EU shop for an ok price, might also be available in the US?

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Not a bad price, but still more than I'm looking to go in for. I did the currency conversion and that's looking at about 1100$ plus shipping.

I second the HarleyBenton at 180€ (~220$). They're generally cheap but reasonably made:

https://www.thomann.de/it/harley_benton_b_650fl_bk_progressive_series.htm



Do you have one of their fretless? Can anyone speak to the quality of the fingerboard work the neck stability and action?
 
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Used Carvin is a great way to go or getting a cheaper ibanez.

Miss your smiling face!

Well and since this is Talkbass... I think this would be a perfect fit for your stable.

Roscoe 6-String Fretless "Jon Jon" Signature Rasta Bass | Griffin's Guitars | Reverb

Hey! Good to see you. How are you and your family doing?

I saw that 'pretender' Roscoe last night when I was looking! Just too rich for me right now. ;)

For that price range I'd have a few words with Sheldon and work something up for the near future. ;) Ideally that probably would be the end goal, or maybe something from Veillette with piezos and semi-hollow.

Then I just need to find someone around here who can give me decent lessons on fretless 6...I've been doing pretty well on my own, but real guided instruction is probably a powermove.
 
I hope the reports come back positive as I'm looking at just that one in a 5.

I'm convinced that a fretless' playing performance lies 100% in the neck. Being able to get the strings down low; having and keeping a very flat neck, and being able to drop the saddles to get lower action up in that 12-24 'fret' position. I hate having to 'chase down' wonky tones in one or two positions on the neck and repeatedly wrenching to get them sorted. I guess pretty much any fretless I buy would go to tech for a once over on the board anyway.
 
Trying to stay cheap to see if the transplant 'takes'... which of course means that if I did really like it I'd be thinking about having someone build me a 6 and spend actual real dollars on it. In that timeline the money I spend now is more research funding rather than playing cash. Right now the Carvin seems to be close to fitting the bill. I've always thought they made a decent bass, probably cheaper than it should have been...and they're usually undervalued on the used market. I think there's the BTB and a second Ibanez that are in that 1000$ range.

If you can get your hands on a Carvin by all means get one.
These are decent US made Basses that often are grossly undervalued.

OTOH if you can get your hands on a fretless BTB, you can expect to sell it for roughly the same you paid somewhere down the line. I made a net loss of €220 on the BTB I played for five years. I bought a floor model that retailed a bit over one grand, but got 15% off because of some small dings in the sidewall.
 
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I had a Brice 6 fretless as a gift from my parents almost 20 years ago (can’t remember if it was 02 or 03 - it was as I left high school). They purchased it from Rondomusic. It was a really fun bass!

It had a pretty sweet quilted top. Electronics were surprising on it. It had some “oomph” behind it. It was easy to set up, too. This was in my early days when I had no idea what I was doing!

They are definitely worth looking in to, IMO.
 
The Douglas brand from Rondo music has some really inexpensive offerings. I had the six-string fretless for a while and it's pretty darned good for the price. Electronics were crap but other that than it was a very good instrument.

Douglas WEB-846 TG 6-String Fretless at HomeOld

web846fltg5.jpg
 
I had a Brice 6 fretless as a gift from my parents almost 20 years ago (can’t remember if it was 02 or 03 - it was as I left high school). They purchased it from Rondomusic. It was a really fun bass!

It had a pretty sweet quilted top. Electronics were surprising on it. It had some “oomph” behind it. It was easy to set up, too. This was in my early days when I had no idea what I was doing!

They are definitely worth looking in to, IMO.

Doesn't look like any fretless 6's are currently available at Rondo, unfortunately.
 
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I've been REALLY diving into fretless for the past year or two. I have a Fretless 5 that I just love, but I'm really thinking about a 6 as I start working with chord tones, etc.

But it would be my first 6, and this would be putting my 'toes in the water,' So I'm really looking at going uber-budget. I know it won't measure up to my fretless Dingwall 5 (or the rest of the herd), so I'm not asking for something of that level, more of me looking to see if it's a good fit before I dive into the deep end.

Any thoughts on if a fretless 6 exists in the ~500$ range that isn't unplayable? Or if you have a bead on a used 6 that is workable, that's great too.

...besides, my birthday is next week, so I deserve something. Cheap Ibanez? LTD, Schecter, etc.? Anything?

What say you hive mind?
My first suggestion would be to string your 5 string fretless up eadgc and see how it goes first. That’ll only cost you a set of strings and a few minutes setting up the bass. If you want buy a bass though warwick has made more affordable fretless 6ers in their import rockbass line that actually have nice ebony boards too.
 
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I just don't think I can do it. I'm just used to a bit more precision in my builds and I'd be nervous with that one piece bridge. Also I always assumed they have fairly high action.
I have no first hand experience, but they seem to get a lot of praise here. I build my own and have only played a few mass produced basses, so not the best one to give first hand advice.
 
My first suggestion would be to string your 5 string fretless up eadgc and see how it goes first. That’ll only cost you a set of strings and a few minutes setting up the bass. If you want buy a bass though warwick has made more affordable fretless 6ers in their import rockbass line that actually have nice ebony boards too.

I just ordered 2x .030 strings to try out. I've been mulling this about in my head for a bit, so worth a try.
 
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Yeah, I had my Dingwall done...twice. The first one was a few hundred dollars and was OK...but there was some things I didn't like and the second job ended up being around 300-400...but they had to uninlay the neck and re-do it.

Wow - all that money to defret a fanned fret bass... and now you have the challenges of playing a fretless that has a very long scale length on the B string and different finger locations required on the other strings to play in tune. Ya know I'm not a "fanned fret fan" from a playing perspective, and specially on fretless I would not touch it... BUT, it's your bass, and you must have enjoyed it enough after the first defret to feel it was worth it to get it done right the second time. So I guess you're happy with it now?

Removing inlay and redoing it sounds like maybe, just maybe, whoever did the defret the first time should have said "Wait, this won't work because of the inlays". THAT totally sucks for you to have gone through. I can only imagine how frustrating that would have been to find out that the first defret situation should not have been performed, due to the inlays on the instrument. I was told that the inlays on a bass I owned would be a problem, many years ago, and the pro I went to said he wouldn't do it because of that.

Anyhoo - so what IS is like to play a fretless fanned fret instrument? What sort of music do you play on it?
 
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I own a Wolf JB4 fretted jazz bass type.
Really a nice instrument. The tuners & bridge are a little on the cheap side but work & function fine.
Neck through. Bubinga & walnut & mahogany. Really built nice. Was $399 & can hold it's own against $1200-1500 instruments. Granted it's not a 6 string fretless but they could be worth taking a chance on.
I do know someone with a 6 string fretted & she is more then pleased.They do tend to be heavy instruments. Mine balances nice so that's not an issue. The only dealer I know is All In One Music in LA.(I bought mine privately). They seem reputable & ship everywhere & seem like they back up what they sell.I'll bet it's a better instrument then the the lower priced Ibanez's.
 
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I've been REALLY diving into fretless for the past year or two. I have a Fretless 5 that I just love, but I'm really thinking about a 6 as I start working with chord tones, etc.

But it would be my first 6, and this would be putting my 'toes in the water,' So I'm really looking at going uber-budget. I know it won't measure up to my fretless Dingwall 5 (or the rest of the herd), so I'm not asking for something of that level, more of me looking to see if it's a good fit before I dive into the deep end.

Any thoughts on if a fretless 6 exists in the ~500$ range that isn't unplayable? Or if you have a bead on a used 6 that is workable, that's great too.

...besides, my birthday is next week, so I deserve something. Cheap Ibanez? LTD, Schecter, etc.? Anything?

What say you hive mind?
Used Ibanez SR506 or ESP B 206 have consistently been the best budget, widely available 6 strings imo in the last decade or so.

I've been playing budget 6 strings exclusively for that and longer
 
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Wow - all that money to defret a fanned fret bass... and now you have the challenges of playing a fretless that has a very long scale length on the B string and different finger locations required on the other strings to play in tune. Ya know I'm not a "fanned fret fan" from a playing perspective, and specially on fretless I would not touch it... BUT, it's your bass, and you must have enjoyed it enough after the first defret to feel it was worth it to get it done right the second time. So I guess you're happy with it now?

Removing inlay and redoing it sounds like maybe, just maybe, whoever did the defret the first time should have said "Wait, this won't work because of the inlays". THAT totally sucks for you to have gone through. I can only imagine how frustrating that would have been to find out that the first defret situation should not have been performed, due to the inlays on the instrument. I was told that the inlays on a bass I owned would be a problem, many years ago, and the pro I went to said he wouldn't do it because of that.

Anyhoo - so what IS is like to play a fretless fanned fret instrument? What sort of music do you play on it?

I received the bass that was defretted (a Dingwall Combustion 5 string) from a friend locally at a REALLY good friend price. Given they sold for about $1700 new then (now they're more like $2300), and this was under $1000 and only very very lightly played. I figured at the time, a backup to one of my others...but over a year or so, I just didn't play it. I'd been thinking about fretless (having played a 4 string fretless Jazz for a few years in the 90's), I figured this would be the perfect opportunity for a project.

The first defret was done locally by someone renowned for working on mostly classical and acoustic instruments, and even doing reconstructions of seriously damaged or destroyed pieces. Lots of cellos, violins, etc. but also classical and acoustic guitars. He also does work on electric instruments. The frets were removed and the lines inlaid in boxwood. I really did want visible lines since this was multi-scale & I hadn't played fretless in a good while. Right off, the lines didn't have enough contrast to the somewhat lighter rosewood fretboard/fingerboard. I will never be a 'play in a dark room/never look at the fretboard guy and I HATE being on dark stages and not being able to see my bass. My eyes aren't all that great to start with either.

Beyond the low-contrast lines, the bass' action was 'playable but not pleasurable'. I did one gig like that and it was workable but not a smooth easy play. I feel like maybe there wasn't as much attention to truing the fingerboard as I would have liked, and the neck definitely needed shimming to bring the action down up high. I also can only describe the intonation as 'roughed in'...though I certainly took care of that, though it felt to me like maybe he lost interest in getting the details right at the end.

Even so...I really loved the way this bass sounded, especially unplugged. The ash body/round wound strings just sounds so good to me but I was feeling it wasn't translating when amplified. I played a show with it and in the mix it sounded good, but I felt like I could get closer, I move the neck pickup back to the 'middle' pickup slot (it sounded closest to ideal on the bridge pickup). I pulled out the EMG preamp and put in a Darkglass Tone Capsule because the EQ points made sense for fretless for me with it's low-mid/high-mid control centers. Better still. I shimmed the neck myself and brought the action down some. But was still feeling like it should be better.

So, I packed it up and sent it out west to Maurilio Mina, a first call for aftermarket custom work on Dingwalls, first call for pro-players on the west coast, and the luthier who works with Carey Nordstrand. Still chasing it's acoustic tone we modified the bridge with piezo saddles, a second preamp integrated with the Darkglass and some custom electronics. The bigger part was that he cut out all the inlay lines. While there he Drilled out all the marker dot inlays; side & front. The neck was fully inlaid with Luminlay, the fingerboard made true and refinished (both front and back).

IMG_0789.jpg


IMG_9661.jpg


It plays WAY better now, it feels way more comfortable, it sounds closer to what I want to hear from it. For the past year or so I've been playing it about 95% of my time...which given that I also received a new custom fretted Super-P this year, says something. I've just really been in love with playing it and really spending time learning fretless more correctly and completely. I've been holding it for between 4 and 8 hours a day lately.

For me it's not a trick to learn how to play multi-scale fretless...I've only played multi-scale since 2005; and the one time I didn't was a hired pickup travel gig where it made more sense to fly with a Steinberger. Dingwall basses have small 'banjo' fretwire that makes you fret more precisely than most basses...they really trained me to have better technique so the transition hasn't been bad. I never did a whole lot of chord-play in the past (beyond guitar), so learning the fingerings isn't a re-learn/re-program, so that seems to make it not seem terrible? It just seems like having a high C string will allow me to center lower of the fretboard more regularly.

I own a Wolf JB4 fretted jazz bass type.
Really a nice instrument. The tuners & bridge are a little on the cheap side but work & function fine.
Neck through. Bubinga & walnut & mahogany. Really built nice. Was $399 & can hold it's own against $1200-1500 instruments. Granted it's not a 6 string fretless but they could be worth taking a chance on.
I do know someone with a 6 string fretted & she is more then pleased.They do tend to be heavy instruments. Mine balances nice so that's not an issue. The only dealer I know is All In One Music in LA.(I bought mine privately). They seem reputable & ship everywhere & seem like they back up what they sell.I'll bet it's a better instrument then the the lower priced Ibanez's.

I'm not counting them out. My one hesitation is the unlined board. I think I'd like lined, given the transition between my usual fanned basses and a traditional parallel position bass.
 
I received the bass that was defretted (a Dingwall Combustion 5 string) from a friend locally at a REALLY good friend price. Given they sold for about $1700 new then (now they're more like $2300), and this was under $1000 and only very very lightly played. I figured at the time, a backup to one of my others...but over a year or so, I just didn't play it. I'd been thinking about fretless (having played a 4 string fretless Jazz for a few years in the 90's), I figured this would be the perfect opportunity for a project.

The first defret was done locally by someone renowned for working on mostly classical and acoustic instruments, and even doing reconstructions of seriously damaged or destroyed pieces. Lots of cellos, violins, etc. but also classical and acoustic guitars. He also does work on electric instruments. The frets were removed and the lines inlaid in boxwood. I really did want visible lines since this was multi-scale & I hadn't played fretless in a good while. Right off, the lines didn't have enough contrast to the somewhat lighter rosewood fretboard/fingerboard. I will never be a 'play in a dark room/never look at the fretboard guy and I HATE being on dark stages and not being able to see my bass. My eyes aren't all that great to start with either.

Beyond the low-contrast lines, the bass' action was 'playable but not pleasurable'. I did one gig like that and it was workable but not a smooth easy play. I feel like maybe there wasn't as much attention to truing the fingerboard as I would have liked, and the neck definitely needed shimming to bring the action down up high. I also can only describe the intonation as 'roughed in'...though I certainly took care of that, though it felt to me like maybe he lost interest in getting the details right at the end.

Even so...I really loved the way this bass sounded, especially unplugged. The ash body/round wound strings just sounds so good to me but I was feeling it wasn't translating when amplified. I played a show with it and in the mix it sounded good, but I felt like I could get closer, I move the neck pickup back to the 'middle' pickup slot (it sounded closest to ideal on the bridge pickup). I pulled out the EMG preamp and put in a Darkglass Tone Capsule because the EQ points made sense for fretless for me with it's low-mid/high-mid control centers. Better still. I shimmed the neck myself and brought the action down some. But was still feeling like it should be better.

So, I packed it up and sent it out west to Maurilio Mina, a first call for aftermarket custom work on Dingwalls, first call for pro-players on the west coast, and the luthier who works with Carey Nordstrand. Still chasing it's acoustic tone we modified the bridge with piezo saddles, a second preamp integrated with the Darkglass and some custom electronics. The bigger part was that he cut out all the inlay lines. While there he Drilled out all the marker dot inlays; side & front. The neck was fully inlaid with Luminlay, the fingerboard made true and refinished (both front and back).

View attachment 4194527

View attachment 4194528

It plays WAY better now, it feels way more comfortable, it sounds closer to what I want to hear from it. For the past year or so I've been playing it about 95% of my time...which given that I also received a new custom fretted Super-P this year, says something. I've just really been in love with playing it and really spending time learning fretless more correctly and completely. I've been holding it for between 4 and 8 hours a day lately.

For me it's not a trick to learn how to play multi-scale fretless...I've only played multi-scale since 2005; and the one time I didn't was a hired pickup travel gig where it made more sense to fly with a Steinberger. Dingwall basses have small 'banjo' fretwire that makes you fret more precisely than most basses...they really trained me to have better technique so the transition hasn't been bad. I never did a whole lot of chord-play in the past (beyond guitar), so learning the fingerings isn't a re-learn/re-program, so that seems to make it not seem terrible? It just seems like having a high C string will allow me to center lower of the fretboard more regularly.



I'm not counting them out. My one hesitation is the unlined board. I think I'd like lined, given the transition between my usual fanned basses and a traditional parallel position bass.

Thank you! That's the most helpful answer to a question I've had in a long long time! Very informative, and terrific photos and story :-)
 
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