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'Budget' 6 String Fretless: Is there one?

Just for fun, if I put myself in your shoes I’d be picking up a second hand fretted six and then de-fretting it myself. Tha ts just me though...I’m not tool shy.

I'd be game except for my lack of woodworking skills and gear. Though I'm sure I could drop the price of a bass into gear to fix that. :beaver:

I'd most likely want to hand it off to someone to do...and I'd really like to make sure it's someone who can 'do it right' and do the proper string-path leveling method...which is a bit complex:

I think this discussion is getting confusing because you guys are missing one element. I'll try my hand at explaining the geometry here:

First, a normal, typical bass fingerboard is cylindrical. That is, it has the same radius at the nut as at the heel.

However, as described above, the strings aren't parallel. They are closer together at the nut than they are at the bridge. Even though the radius of the undersides of the strings may be the same at the nut as at the bridge, the underside of the strings actually describe a slightly different shape than a cylinder.

The strings going right down the center of the fingerboard will be true. That is, if you lay a straightedge down the centerline of a normal cylindrical fingerboard, it will lay flat. However, as you move the straightedge off to the side at an angle to the centerline, following the actual paths of the outboard strings, you'll find that the center will be high. The straightedge will rock on a high spot in the center, as if the neck were backbowed. The further off-angle to the centerline you go, the worse this condition will be. Also, the smaller the fingerboard radius (rounder) is, the worse it will be. If you cut the fingerboard to a pure cylinder, you'll end up with high-spot buzzing on the outboard strings, but not the center strings.

So how do you trim the surface of a cylindrical fingerboard to correct for this problem? The process is just like Musiclogic described above; you level-file right along the actual string paths, blending in between them. This process is often called "conical filing", but it isn't really forming a cone shape. That's what gets confusing. It's actually forming a slight "hourglass" shape. The radiuses at either end of the fingerboard are untouched. You are trimming away wood at the middle of the fingerboard (lengthwise), but only on either side of the centerline. So, the radiuses at the nut and the heel may be 12", but the radius at the 7th fret will be slightly less, like 11 3/4". I prefer to call this "hourglass filing" to minimize the confusion.

On a fingerboard that has been properly "hourglass filed" like this, a straightedge placed along all of the string paths will be dead flat. When the straightedge is placed parallel to the centerline, but off to either side of center, there will be a slight gap under the middle, a "relief". But, down the center, there's no gap. This is where owners often get really confused when trying to check the relief and adjust the truss rod. A high quality, hourglass-filed fingerboard can give you confusing relief readings if you don't understand what you are looking for.

If you want to get really technical, the real mathematical description of this hourglass-filed fingerboard is.....wait for it.....an offset hyperbolic paraboloid! I'm sure that brings back some frightening memories from your school days. Picture an hourglass, where you take the narrow waist and push it off to the side enough that one side becomes straight. That's what an "hourglass-filed" fingerboard looks like. The centerline of the fingerboard is right on that straight side. The further off to either side you go, the more hourglass-shaped it becomes. Try not to get a headache.

So, how does this relate to compound radius fingerboards? A "compound radius" fingerboard is just another term for a conical-shaped fingerboard. That is, the radius is larger at the heel than it is at the nut. The surface is a section of a cone. Basically, the more conical you make the fingerboard shape, the less need there will be for the "hourglass filing" correction. There is a point where the surface becomes conical enough that no hourglass filing is needed. However, most commercial compound radius fingerboards aren't that radical, and still need a little bit of correction to make them flat along the string paths.

What confuses things even more is that instruments built with compound radius fingerboards often also use a flatter radius on the bridge than on the nut. So, the underside of the strings are also on a conical shape, but they still aren't parallel, so the fingerboard surface still ends up needing some hourglass-filing correction. Don't hurt yourself picturing that one.

How does this relate to frets? Exactly the same way. A really good fretjob has this hourglass-filing correction as part of it. The typical process involves using a straight file or diamond stick or oilstone, working along the string paths and blending in between. Leveling frets with sandpaper on a radius block is only a way of roughing them in. It takes an extra step to make them really true for the strings.

Let me repeat: All of this hourglass-filing stuff becomes less noticeable and necessary as the fingerboard radius gets flatter (larger radius). A flat fingerboard doesn't have this effect at all. That's one of the reasons why manufacturers and builders like to go with flatter fingerboards; it's less complicated. I personally like to build my basses with very round fingerboards, from 7 1/4" to 4" radius. At a 4" radius, all of these geometry issues become much more obvious. That's why I've spent the time working with them and trying to understand them.

I hope this helps clarify the discussion?
 
^^ Lightbulb moment from that post of Bruce's you quoted. Makes perfect sense. No defretting a fretted bass as I suggested in my other thread.

The thing I'd worry about is that I bet absolutely none of the cheaper fretlesses (possibly even some higher priced ones) are worked over to that extent either. Probably means sending it to a tech who's willing to listen to this process if they don't already know it.
 
The Douglas brand from Rondo music has some really inexpensive offerings. I had the six-string fretless for a while and it's pretty darned good for the price. Electronics were crap but other that than it was a very good instrument.

Douglas WEB-846 TG 6-String Fretless at HomeOld

View attachment 4194218
+1 to the Douglas rondomusic 6 string fretless basses. I own one and while its not anything to write home about, it's a pretty damn good bass for under $200. Probably comparable in build quality to a Squier. As someone that almost never plays fretless it does its job, comfortable to play sounds pretty good.
 
So @Brother Goose with a good eye out alerted me to this on the overnight...

For Sale - Ibanez BTB676F

20210301_145916-jpg.jpg


So, I sprang for it. Mostly within budget, I think it's probably a decent build and it's only one state away. It has fretlines, which I do want and an unfinished board, which will allow me to get it to a tech if I don't think the board is as it should be.

BTB's are ugly as sin, but I'm not going to let that stand in my way. I think I can also flip it reasonably if I don't like it.
 
Mwahaha! (Emphasis on mwah)

Congrats! I think it'll be a fun bass for you and if you don't like it....

Thanks. Looking forward to experimenting with it...We'll see where it takes me. Also, no kidding about selling it if I don't like. I've already gotten offers.

You need to visit the optometrist. There are a lot of commercial basses out there worse looking than a BTB.

Something about that long thin upper horn is kind of gawky to me. I dunno...Kind of big bodied and gangly. Obviously if it was an issue I wouldn't have bought it. ;)
 
So @Brother Goose with a good eye out alerted me to this on the overnight...

For Sale - Ibanez BTB676F

View attachment 4196525

So, I sprang for it. Mostly within budget, I think it's probably a decent build and it's only one state away. It has fretlines, which I do want and an unfinished board, which will allow me to get it to a tech if I don't think the board is as it should be.

BTB's are ugly as sin, but I'm not going to let that stand in my way. I think I can also flip it reasonably if I don't like it.

Somehow they look less ugly/weird when it’s being played.
 
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