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buffer? what and why do I need one?

M

Marill

Guest
Nov 30, 2006
340
6
Seattle, Washington
#1
i always see comments like "the Korg DT-10 can act as a good buffer for your signal".

I've searched up wikipedia on buffers and all they say is fancy electronics and resistance in ohms stuff.

So what does this really mean? How does it help my sound? Isn't a compressor good enough? (i know a compressor is used to even out the volumes of your playing, but I guess it should be able to provide a more steady signal as well right?)
 
#2
A buffer can be thought of as a pump - it just pushes your signal along to try to keep the signal level high as it flows along your cables. Chances are your signal's going to get buffered by your pedals anyway unless they're all true-bypass so unless you think your signal is getting noisy then don't waste money on a buffer.

The toneheads are going to crush me for saying that, but ultimately you have to rely on your own ears to decide whether you need something like that.
 
#4
Marill said:
So what does this really mean? How does it help my sound? Isn't a compressor good enough? (i know a compressor is used to even out the volumes of your playing, but I guess it should be able to provide a more steady signal as well right?)
Click to expand...

Different process, different purpose. A compressor alters your dynamics, which can be looked at as regulating the size of the voltage range of your signal, as well as what percentage of your signal stays within a specific voltage range.

But in order for that voltage to get where it's going without dissipating or changing much, it has to be able to transfer very efficiently from one device to the next. Impedance is a way of discussing that efficiency. Every device (bass, pedal, amp) has an input impedance and/or an output impedance. By itself that measurement doesn't mean much, but when you connect two devices you create a circuit, and their impedances have to be optimal for each other in order to get the best, most efficient transfer of signal.

So what a buffer does is takes a signal with a relatively high output impedance, and converts it into a low output impedance. With most audio gear that will allow the signal to transfer much more efficiently.

A buffer is not necessarily a gain boost, although it can also be designed for that. (By gain I mean voltage gain- there's a TB'er who is annoyingly hung up on that little detail, so this disclaimer is for him. ;) )

So a buffer can be good for your signal if you have a passive bass (high output impedance) and are using a fairly long instrument cable; with an active bass (which always contains a buffer already) or a shorter cable, there may be no benefit.

If you are using pedals though, each of them has impedance in and out as well, so it is possible that some older or weirder pedals may benefit from another buffer. Also many, many pedals contain a buffer already, built into their footswitch. But that brings up the fact that buffers can be badly designed sometimes, causing more harm than good! That's why some pedals are blamed for "tone suck" when bypassed. So it's important how the buffer was designed.

Again a buffer can be designed to boost gain as well, so that may be helpful sometimes. When splitting or mixing a signal, connecting the chains passively can cause signal loss or other issues, partly due to changing their impedance relationships; a buffer dramatically improves the quality of mixers and can also benefit splitters.
 
#5
fuNKmaster83 said:
every non TBP effect has a buffer...
Click to expand...

False. Many non-true-bypass pedals have what I'd like to call a "half-assed" bypass. :D

You see this a lot with many MXR pedals and older pedals in general. When bypassed, part of the signal path is still wired to the effect circuit, resulting usually in a bit of tone loss or signal loss.

There are also other bypass variations that do not involve buffers.

Anyhow... +1 to Bongo's post. :D
 
#6
kevteop said:
...The toneheads are going to crush me for saying that, but ultimately you have to rely on your own ears to decide whether you need something like that.
Click to expand...


Wait a minute! I proudly consider myself a "Tonehead", and I agree entirely that your ears should be the judge.

Perhaps you meant the "Techheads" - now those guys are crazy!!! ;)
 
#7
crazyeyes.gif
 
#8
The main place a buffer will be useful is driving a long cable. A true buffer doesn't actually change the level, but just gives an increased current capability which helps compensate for cable capacitance. (so you don't lose the high frequencies.)

Of course, this means putting it at the instrument is generally the only way it'll be effective.

Something like this: http://www.till.com/articles/PreampCable/index.html is ideal.

-Nick
 
#9
I use a SYB-3 synth pedal first in my chain. Ive noticed signal loss when I have it on. Would a buffer be good after that pedal ? To push the signal along ?
Ive been using my first generation 00Funk pedal to do this, since it has a by-pass gain knob
Would a buffer do it better ?
 
#10
if it has a bypass gain, that is pretty much what a buffer would do.

In the first case, My guess is that you likely need the buffer before the pedal.

An ideal buffer is not an amplifier. It's just a current driver. It takes whatever voltage you put in, and puts the same voltage out. The only thing it adds is current capability.

If you put either a capacitive, or a relatively low resistance load directly on the output of a pickup, the pickup won't have the current to feed it and it's output will sag (selectively to high frequencies in the capacitance case). A buffer just asserts whatever the voltage source (pickup) is saying a little more strongly.

In this particular case, I would guess that the input of your synth pedal is loading the pickups too heavily. If you put the buffer after it, you're just making sure that it stays at its already degraded level. If you put it before, it should have the current to supply the input of the pedal properly and the loss will not occur (or at least greatly reduced)

It is also possible that the pedal has a very high impedance output which is getting loaded down by the next device in the chain. In that case putting the buffer after your pedal would help.


-Nick
 
#11
Signal loss when ON? A buffer isn't really the solution.

And describe signal loss. If it's tone loss... it's SUPPOSED to do that. It's a synth pedal. :p

If it's a volume drop, that's another story.

Either way, there are a number of possible causes, mainly dealing with your settings and the pedal itself.

On a side note, the SYB-3's bypass is buffered.
 
#13
M.T.A.C. said:
Are you talking about when you use both outputs ?
Click to expand...

ALL Boss pedals (as far as I know... maybe the old CE-1 and a select few others from 30+ years ago are exceptions) have buffered outputs. And yes, both of them, for the pedals that have more than one. :p

But that's a moot point if you're having problems when it's ON - the bypass buffer is active only when the pedal is OFF.
 
#15
bongomania said:
Different process, different purpose. A compressor alters your dynamics, which can be looked at as regulating the size of the voltage range of your signal, as well as what percentage of your signal stays within a specific voltage range.
Click to expand...

So, If I use Demeter Compulator as a compressor (it is always on) it doesn`t work as a buffer at a same time? Is the situation different if I keep the compression knob down 0 and just match the volume or boost it? Is it working as a buffer then?
:confused:
 
#16
It does contain, and work as, a buffer. If you set it to not compress, and not cut or boost gain, then it will act as "just a buffer". Whether it's a buffer designed in a way that will be beneficial to you, that is up to your ears.
 

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