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Bugera Veyron Head

Well I ran up to Sweetwater today to test a number of cabinets. I brought my bass and my Bugera Veyron head to test all the cabinets below:

First in line was the Bugera 115 My initial impression was that I was surprised at how small it was - for some reason I was expecting something bigger. Not sure why. It had fabulous mids and highs but the low B string was mud. It lacked the articulation that I was looking for.

Second was the Hartke HyDrive HD115. This was moderately better but I expected it to be much better. A lot more clarity and articulation in the mids and highs but again the lows lacked the clarity I sought. The low-end clarity was better than the Bugera but still not what I was seeking.

Third was the Harke HyDrive HD112. This cabinet was excellent and I very nearly bought it. I played a pair of them and they were very articulate and clean even on the low B. I really really liked them.

Then for S&G's I played three Mesa/Boogie cabinets. I figured since I was there I may as well play them even though I had not budgeted for them. So continuing on:

Fourth I played the Mesa/Boogie Subway 115. Wow. WOW. GREAT sound. Very articulate. Better than the Harke HyDrive HD112 although they were very very close. I spent about half an hour going back and fourth between them.

Next I played the Mesa/Boogie Subway 210. It was good but not as good as the Mesa/Boogie Subway 115 and not as good as the Hartke HyDrive HD112. I played it maybe five minutes but that was enough to move on.

Lastly I played the Mesa/Boogie Subway 112. It was almost immediate. I was blown away with how good it sounded. I ended up A/Bing this against the Hartke HyDrive HD112 for a good 20 minutes. My sales engineer switched cabinets for me while I faced the opposite direction so that I used only my ears without knowing which cabinet I was playing through. Each time, each test, I ended up choosing the Mesa/Boogie Subway 112. I took a ten minute break to grab a cup of coffee, reset my ears, and then came back and did it again. It was very very close but the Mesa/Boogie Subway was the clear winner for me.

Miracle of miracles my sales engineer found a demo and was able to cut me a deal that I couldn't pass up. So now these are in my basement. I realize everyone has different tastes and different needs. What necessarily works for one may not necessarily work for another. I can tell you that I believe the Hartke HyDrive HD112's were excellent and would have done quite well for me and I probably would have been happy with them as well. But given the right circumstances I was lucky enough to be able to get a good deal on what I found to be the very best.

I apologize for derailing the Bugera Veyron thread with my cabinet testing experience but I figured I might get away with it since the testing did involve a Bugera Veyron head.

IMG_9800.jpg
 
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I find Bugera's wattage numbers to be rather over-exaggerated but I can say that they are loud. For a small package and relatively low price I am pleasantly surprised with it. As I mentioned in a previous post the true test will be the test of time as I start gigging with it. While I do not abuse my gear I am curious as to how it does being transported and going through the inevitable bumps and bruises. If I had to guess I would say the Veyron is probably close to 500 watts but I have no way of actually testing and confirming this. Either way it is still much louder than the Hartke TX600.
It's a shame they don't just state their wattage in terms similar to everyone else. It's very deceptive, especially to newbs looking for a great cheap amp. I'm glad you realize the wattage thing and hope it works out for you.

Awesome 3 thumbs up on the cab!
 
I recently picked up the tube version...

43257417_739090189817198_2572566027393040384_o-jpg.jpg


i swapped out the Chinese 12AX7's for Soviet made tubes and it opened the voicing of the amp up a bit IMHO (It sounds better and not quite as dark as before)...i tried both initially and really liked the voicing of the tube version better than the Mosfet version...

it is interesting to note that in another thread about this head Behringer supposedly replied to a fellow TB'er that the amp was rated at 500 watts RMS and then also quickly followed it up with this...

"Dear all,

Please allow me to introduce myself, my name is Bart Bolton and I am the Manager of the MUSIC Group Care Center in Nevada which is in charge of servicing and managing spare parts for the brands Midas, Klark Teknik, Turbosound, Behringer and Bugera.

Allow me to clarify that we do not specify this amp as 500 Watt RMS as we do not specify any of our products in RMS for reasons often discussed.Today’s Class D amps are generally not designed for RMS performance and there are many online articles that explain why RMS specs are not meaningful for music performance. Perhaps we could suggest that a qualified test lab does proper measurements and in comparisons with many other brands. This would be very interesting."

I too was curious about the actual wattage (RMS) so I did a little math based on the power consumption and came up with a figure of roughly 800 watts...so i took it to the local repair shop for bench testing...it actually came in at just under 750 watts RMS according to the amp tech...so lets just say (based on an 80% to 85% efficiency giving Bugera the benefit of the doubt) that it's a 700 watt RMS amp and leave it at that...not sure how Uli and the boys came up with 2000 watt peak...

but it's loud and I dig it and it a-lot!
 
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I recently picked up the tube version...

View attachment 3174097

i swapped out the Chinese 12AX7's for Soviet made tubes and it opened the voicing of the amp up a bit IMHO (It sounds better and not quite as dark as before)...i tried both initially and really liked the voicing of the tube version better than the Mosfet version...

it is interesting to note that in another thread about this head Behringer supposedly replied to a fellow TB'er that the amp was rated at 500 watts RMS and then also quickly followed it up with this...

"Dear all,

Please allow me to introduce myself, my name is Bart Bolton and I am the Manager of the MUSIC Group Care Center in Nevada which is in charge of servicing and managing spare parts for the brands Midas, Klark Teknik, Turbosound, Behringer and Bugera.

Allow me to clarify that we do not specify this amp as 500 Watt RMS as we do not specify any of our products in RMS for reasons often discussed.Today’s Class D amps are generally not designed for RMS performance and there are many online articles that explain why RMS specs are not meaningful for music performance. Perhaps we could suggest that a qualified test lab does proper measurements and in comparisons with many other brands. This would be very interesting."

I too was curious about the actual wattage (RMS) so I did a little math based on the power consumption and came up with a figure of roughly 800 watts...so i took it to the local repair shop for bench testing...it actually came in at just under 750 watts RMS according to the amp tech...so lets just say (based on an 80% to 85% efficiency giving Bugera the benefit of the doubt) that it's a 700 watt RMS amp and leave it at that...not sure how Uli and the boys came up with 2000 watt peak...

but it's loud and I dig it and it a-lot!

I would be inclined to find the 700 watt rating a little more reasonable - I had guessed it to be around 500 watts. Glad someone was able to get some real world numbers there.

I think the 2000 watt rating might be the manufacturer's stated melting point.
 
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Today’s Class D amps are generally not designed for RMS performance and there are many online articles that explain why RMS specs are not meaningful for music performance.
Another silly Uli explanation. So wrong, misleading and ignorant I don't know where to begin on that one.

Anybody equipped to read voltage with a sinewave playing through? It'd at least give some form of data to solidify the output ratings in real word terms.

If someone tries this, they want to be careful not to ground the (likely) bridged output, both + and - must "float." Grounding the - through a scope will result in sparks and sadness.
 
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If someone tries this, they want to be
If someone tries this, they want to be careful not to ground the (likely) bridged output, both + and - must "float." Grounding the - through a scope will result in sparks and sadness.

Yep. No descriptions given. Just wanted to know if anyone is equipped. A positive reply would imply that there is at least a basic understanding. We can build on that if such a reply ever occurs.
 
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If someone tries this, they want to be careful not to ground the (likely) bridged output, both + and - must "float." Grounding the - through a scope will result in sparks and sadness.

Yep. No descriptions given. Just wanted to know if anyone is equipped. A positive reply would imply that there is at least a basic understanding. We can build on that if such a reply ever occurs.

I thought this guy had some testing done? I am not knowledgeable in these things at all - is bench testing different from having it tested on a scope?

I too was curious about the actual wattage (RMS) so I did a little math based on the power consumption and came up with a figure of roughly 800 watts...so i took it to the local repair shop for bench testing...it actually came in at just under 750 watts RMS according to the amp tech...so lets just say (based on an 80% to 85% efficiency giving Bugera the benefit of the doubt) that it's a 700 watt RMS amp and leave it at that...not sure how Uli and the boys came up with 2000 watt peak...
 
I liked the tone of the Hydrive 112 but it couldn't get loud enough without making noise. Maybe mine was flawed. The Mesa, which ever one you picked, is clearly of the creme of this crop. Worth the extra money. With them it's all about preference because you know it's high quality. They look really cool too, like they mean business!
 
Did you try the Bugera 410?
.

I did not. Time was running out for me as I had to be back home to get my son off the bus and I was feeling sorry for the guys who kept having to run to the warehouse to grab more cabinets for me to test. I sort of wish I had but I'll be very honest in that I am very happy with the Mesa/Boogie Subway 112's. Maybe I will try out the Bugera 410 the next time I am up there.
 
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.

I did not. Time was running out for me as I had to be back home to get my son off the bus and I was feeling sorry for the guys who kept having to run to the warehouse to grab more cabinets for me to test. I sort of wish I had but I'll be very honest in that I am very happy with the Mesa/Boogie Subway 112's. Maybe I will try out the Bugera 410 the next time I am up there.
You made the best choice IMO. A pair of quality 12's is all you'll ever need and the fact that they're light means you should be set until you're an old fart like me. That Veyron, spec'd out at 700w RMS, is more than enough amp also. Tough to beat for 399.00 bucks.
 
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